Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

However, If we are to accept that the impetus for this "sell off" of all worldly possessions came about as the NT (and thus the Christian religion) teaches,
by way of the very teachings of Jesus himself, and as evident in Acts, that the early Church did respond and act in a unified accordance with those teachings;
That in so doing they set an example for The Church in all ages.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Else the teaching of Christ Jesus was for that time only, and would require that The Church its self would need find the words of their Lord to be in error, untrustworthy, subject to change, or be eliminated from practice, at the whims of the church.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Neither Christ Jesus, nor that Church He founded, and headed by The Apostles, ever gave permission for any departure from the teachings or from the practices that were instituted by Him, and were lived by by them.
It was not merely a matter them of deciding to be some sort of ideological communists, but of hearing, and wholeheartedly obeying and doing their Master, and His Apostles teachings.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Christ did not change, nor His words, nor the doctrine of the Apostles.
It is the church that has departed from, and has fallen away from His teachings, and from the examples given and demonstrated by the conduct of The early Church.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Why? because latter "church members" soon came to to love the comforts of their own wealth, of their own homes, and of their own lands, far, far more than they love Christ Jesus.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

This so being, they soon appointed to themselves preachers and teachers, who would for a small sum, "scratch their itching ears" with smooth words and with platitudes, and of course never require of them that 100% ALL that Christ and the membership of The early Church required without exception from ALL of its members.
Peter settled for no less, and any preacher since, or TODAY, who settles for less, betrays The Master, His Church, and the whole Household of The Lord.
Whosoever will not surrender all, is not worthy, and has no part in, nor membership in The Congregation of The Lord.
No one needs ever exclude such, as they have excluded their selves, by their love of Mammon.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

"Christians" of today may cook up all of the mealy-mouth excuses that they want for their disobedience to THE WORDS of the Master, and to The Example that the Apostles and Church gave to ALL members, for ALL time;
Do they think to deceive God Himself even as they rob Him?
A slave does not own anything, ALL that a slave earns or possesses belongs to his Master, and is for the collective use of The Master's household.

In vain do they say that they are the Master's servants, who rob His household day and night to purchase their own houses, their own lands, and luxuries.

And for what? They deceive only themselves, in their saying "The Lord, The Lord God has spoken"
For if come that which they preach, In that Day, they shall certainly lose all that they have stolen from The Lord's Table, and from The Lord's Household.

All of the teachings, preachings, testimonies, and confessions of these thieving and lying false servants will be revealed as only so many vain and empty words in that Day when The Master says "Depart from Me you workers of iniquity".

Better for these that they had kept their mouths shut, than had laid claim to what was not theirs.
For while even strangers may find favor and be invited in, and be sat down in places of honor to eat and drink with The Master at His Table, thieving and lying false "servants", shall be turned away at the entry, never to enter, the door being ever barred and locked against such. Then there shall be weeping, and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

If any think they stand, let them take heed least they fall. Any servant that thinks of their self as being an "insider", take heed least they be cast out into the outer darkness.
Woe unto those servants who say; 'Our Lord delays His coming, wherefore His pantry is now ours to plunder, and He will never require it of us'. So wasting their lives only to reap the harvest of their shame;
Ah yes, far better for these had they said; 'I do not believe',
than saying; 'I believe', and then not doing ALL that the Master they confessed commanded; Without commitment and obedience, no mans faith is faithful.

Originally Posted by Solo

. . .

There are three important Jesus sayings on the "careless state" that are not present in Mark, only in the other synoptics. It may be, as some believe, because Mark did not know "Q", but they also happen to be at loggerheads with Pauline theology and ethics. Assuming that you are familiar with the diagnostic description of bi-polar disorder would you not agree that these statements are frank descriptions of someone displaying manic behaviours ?

"Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." (technically this would be a poetic rendering of a fugue, no ?)

"let the dead bury their dead !" (says Jesus in Mt & Lk to a grieving son who asks to wait until he buries his dad). . .

Originally Posted by LogicandReason

. . .
One thing is for certain...if Christians lives as ascetics and surrendered their lives to improving our communities, they would have no opposition from Atheists. Their palatial churches and homes make us non-believers think they are not genuine...and certainly not practicing something that is 'other worldly.'

Originally Posted by Solo

I think it has to do with the perceived "excesses" of Jesus, as in:

Mk 2:18-19 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not?
And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

Jiri

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Even Yeshua was accused of not being ascetic/"other wordly" in the following verse:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Agreed.

Originally Posted by arnoldo "let the dead bury their dead !" (says Jesus in Mt & Lk to a grieving son who asks to wait until he buries his dad). . .

21. Another one of his disciples said to him, "My Lord, permit me to go first bury my father.*" 22. However, Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead."

*8:21 Lit. Ar. idiomatic expression retained: "Then let me go and take care of my father until he is dead [and then I will follow you.]" http://www.v-a.com/bible/matthew-8.html

Originally Posted by Solo

The issue still stands: what is Jesus' hurry that denies an essential act of familial piety ? IOW, what is the "correct" interpretation of 8.22 ?


Jiri