JPD

The Quran Surahs 1 & 2.

Surah 1

1:1 - In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful

1:5 – Thee do we worship, And thine aid we seek.


Surah 2

2:2 – This is the book; It is guidance sure, without doubt, To those who fear Allah

2:6 – As to those who reject faith. It is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

2:7 – Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing. And on their eyes is a veil

2:8 – Of the people there are some who say “We believe in Allah and the last day� but they do not really believe

2:9 - …But they only deceive themselves and realize it not!

2:10 – In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease

2:14 – When they meet those who believe they say “We believe�; but when they are alone with their evil ones they say “We are really with you. We were only jesting�

2:18 - Deaf, dumb and blind they will not return (to the path).

2:21 – Worship your Guardian Lord

2:23 – And if ye are in doubt as to what we have revealed from time to time to our servant then produce a surah like thereunto.

2:24 – But if ye cannot – and of a surety ye cannot – then fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones, which is prepared for those who reject faith.


It is worth spending a little time digesting this to fully comprehend how ridiculous it is. In Surah 1:1 the reader is informed that Allah is most gracious and most merciful but when Surah 2:2 – 2:18 is read it would appear that the gracious and merciful Allah has set seals on the hearts of non-believers and informed the readers that they (the non-believers) will not return to the path. The reader is then, in Surah 2:21, told to worship Allah. A rather unclear challenge is presented in Surah 2:23 – 24. Quite what is meant by “therunto� / the like of is not enlarged upon. It has the ring of a buffoon who owns a car bragging that his is the best and that no-one else’s is as good. When someone retorts with “Well my car has 2 more cylinders� the buffoon doesn’t count the cylinders and respond that, indeed, the challenger has a larger number of cylinders and so has met the challenge on that count. He merely replies with “My car is the best�. Surah 2:24 says just this when it says “But if you can’t� suggesting that the possibility exists despite having failed to sufficiently define the challenge, and then says “oh but you can’t�. Such verses are the output of the terrorist. When someone claims that he is a fool he merely replies “Yes I am certainly the best�.

Allah appears to be most merciful only to believers and spends a great deal of time informing the readers (who should only be those who believe) that they will be looked after and then repeats ad nauseum how merciful Allah is and how screwed the non-believers are but it is apparently Allah who has decided that the non-believers are not going to return to the path of faith and righteousness. Quite what the non-believers are supposed to do is a bit of a mystery as Allah has set seals on their hearts, hearing etc.

Perfect? An interesting use of the word and a definition I am not familiar with.

Net2004

i don't see any where in the verse where it is saying that women lack in reason.The 2 female witneses is clearly conditional, i.e. "IF"...In my opinion this means that if the woman is sure of her testimony, then the other woman doesn't even need to step in....considering women were normally involved in household affairs in Arabian societies, the Qur'aan was ensuring 'satifcation' of the parties.. Muslim apologist say's

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...60#post3009460

Iskander

Below is the full text
2 – Testimony or bearing witness. The Qur’aan states that the testimony of one man is equivalent to the testimony of two

women.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you

agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her�

[al-Baqarah 2:282]

Ibn Katheer said:

Two women are to take the place of one man because women are lacking in reason, as Muslim narrated in his Saheeh… from Abu

Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O women, give in charity and seek forgiveness a

great deal, for I have seen that you form the majority of the people of Hell.� A wise woman among them said, “Why is it, O

Messenger of Allaah, that we are the majority of the people of Hell?� He said, “Because you curse too much, and you are

ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing

the wisdom of the wise, besides you.� The woman asked: “O Messenger of Allaah, what is wrong with our common sense and our

religion?� He said: “Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to

that of one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense, and you spend some nights (and days) in which you do not offer

prayer and in the month of Ramadan (during the days) you do not observe fast, that is a failing in religion.�

(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/336)

There may be some women who are wiser than some men, but this is not the usual rule and such women are not in the majority.

Sharee’ah is based on what is general and most common.

The fact that women are lacking in reason does not mean that they are crazy, rather their reason is often overtaken by their

emotions, and this happens to women more often than it happens to men. No one would deny this except one who is arrogant.

Iskander

2 – Testimony or bearing witness. The Qur’aan states that the testimony of one man is equivalent to the testimony of two women.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her�
[al-Baqarah 2:282]
Ibn Katheer said:
Two women are to take the place of one man because women are lacking in reason, as Muslim narrated in his Saheeh… from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O women, give in charity and seek forgiveness a great deal, for I have seen that you form the majority of the people of Hell.� A wise woman among them said, “Why is it, O Messenger of Allaah, that we are the majority of the people of Hell?� He said, “Because you curse too much, and you are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you.� The woman asked: “O Messenger of Allaah, what is wrong with our common sense and our religion?� He said: “Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to that of one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense, and you spend some nights (and days) in which you do not offer prayer and in the month of Ramadan (during the days) you do not observe fast, that is a failing in religion.�
(Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/336)
There may be some women who are wiser than some men, but this is not the usual rule and such women are not in the majority. Sharee’ah is based on what is general and most common.
The fact that women are lacking in reason does not mean that they are crazy, rather their reason is often overtaken by their emotions, and this happens to women more often than it happens to men. No one would deny this except one who is arrogant.

Toto

These ancient canards serve only to discredit Islam.

River

The Bible does NOT promote Equality in society. Secularization of the Bible has lead to Equality in some societies. The Bible places most of the guilt on Eve. While the Qur'an blames Adam and Eve equally...yet it pardons them equally and finally exalts them. In the Bible pregnancy and labor are manifestations of the burden given to females. In Islam, pregnancy and childbirth are a blessing and women are rewarded for every moment. The Bible also clearly states that woman must be subservient to one another.

Remember Prophet Muhammad's wife Khadija was 20 years older than him. She was wealthier than him ....she was his bussiness partner and equal. Khadija proposed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).


-River

Iskander

The Sunnah are the life actions and sayings of the profet and the Korn and Sunnah have equal standing.It is not old it is current law in the sharia

Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Iskander

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him."

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 486:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Do you make us (women) equal to dogs and donkeys? While I used to lie in my bed, the Prophet would come and pray facing the middle of the bed. I used to consider it not good to stand in front of him in his prayers. So I used to slip away slowly and quietly from the foot of the bed till I got out of my guilt.

Iskander

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 6:
Narrated Anas:
The Prophet I used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 142:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 94:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The Prophet said, "If anyone of you, when having sexual intercourse with his wife, says: Bismillah, Allahumma jannibni-Sh-Shaitan wa jannib-ish-Shaitan ma razaqtana, and if it is destined that they should have a child, then Satan will never be able to harm him."

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 169:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
(The Prophet) Solomon son of (the Prophet) David said, "Tonight I will go round (i.e. have sexual relations with) one hundred women (my wives) everyone of whom will deliver a male child who will fight in Allah's Cause." On that an Angel said to him, "Say: 'If Allah will.' " But Solomon did not say it and forgot to say it. Then he had sexual relations with them but none of them delivered any child except one who delivered a half person. The Prophet said, "If Solomon had said: 'If Allah will,' Allah would have fulfilled his (above) desire and that saying would have made him more hopeful."

Kosh

OMFG!

From a commercial here in the U.S.

Geico Ad guy: "Sorry, we didn't think you were around any more"

Neanderthal: "Maybe you should do a little research next time?"