mark9950

Thanks for telling me that if you ask you will not receive.your statement just proves that you believe that jesus is a liar too.

Calzaer

Exactly.

Yahzi

But... if we can block that power by simply doing nothing... that seems pretty limited.

Heck, most powers you have to actively oppose. But apparently God's limitless power can be limited by simply doing nothing.

What, exactly, does limitless mean, if it doesn't mean without limits?

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
And world peace is a request that will be granted in the future.

And good health is something that will be granted in the future, when God resurrects everyone with new bodies. So why did Jesus bother to heal lepers and blind people, Magus?

Magus55

To help them and show others that He is God.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Calzaer
he's been basically putting words in Jesus's mouth for this entire thread.

Jesus, according to the bible : Ask, and you shall receive. If anyone asks my father for something in my name, it shall be granted.

Jesus, according to the apologetics of this thread : Ask, but you should only ask for something that I would ask for. And you might only get it ten years later, or twenty years later, or in the unspecified future when I come back to earth. Despite this, you have to have faith that you will receive it. Now you see why I grant so few requests?

I can't help but notice a slight dissimilarity between the two Jesuses.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
To help them and show others that He is God.

Then he could very well follow this reasoning to feed starving children these days.

But again, you fail to address the point. If good health, like world peace, is something that people would receive anyway in the distant future, why give it to them now?

Magus55

Because it isn't time yet. Other events have to unfold to fullfill prophecy. Can't have the millenium kingdom, until after the Rapture and Tribulation.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
Because it isn't time yet.

Why was it "time" to heal a blind man, but not "time" to feed starving children or create world peace?

Other events have to unfold to fullfill prophecy. Can't have the millenium kingdom, until after the Rapture and Tribulation.

No one's asking for a millenium kingdom. We're asking for war to stop. There can still be domestic violence or car crashes, if Jesus wants some problems to remain unsolved.

If his motivations for healing the sick are to help people and show that he's god, he would be helping people and showing that he's god to a far greater factor if he provided world peace.

Edited to add : I just remembered Jesus raising the dead (was it Jairus's daughter?). Why didn't he say, "It isn't time for dead people to be raised. That will happen at the end of the world, for the Great White Throne Judgement. Can't have the raising until after the Rapture and Tribulation"? Jesus never even used the word Rapture, did he? It would certainly have helped your case if he had stated the reasons you put forth for his behavior, or lack thereof.

AJ113

Ahh, a clear answer at last. So Jesus lied when said "Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete." What he really meant was "Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, but only if you do it for yourself, and your joy will be complete."

Christians understand this very well. I don't know why atheists have such a problem with self initiative.

We don't. We have a problem with Jesus saying "ask and you shall receive" when it is clearly a lie.