dog-on

The passage:

2Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power. 8Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Doesn't this give the firm impression that Paul did not view Jesus as a recent occurance (see 3:5), but rather as something that transpired in the distant past (see 3:9)?

andrewcriddle

I would say the obvious meaning is that's God plan is age-old but was hidden until recently. Various passages in Ephesians would indicate that it is the life death resurrection and ascension of Christ that has resulted in the accomplishment and revelation of God's previously hidden purpose.

Ephesians 2:13-17 Ephesians 4:8 Andrew Criddle

Huon

Ephesians is considered "not authentic" and written around 80-100 CE.

bacht

I've seen it suggested that Ephesians (Laodiceans?) was a compilation or summary of Pauline ideas :huh:

Doug Shaver

So much the better, in a way. It means we have multiple attestation for the thinking of first-century Christians. The author of the undisputed Pauline letters seems never to have heard of a historical Jesus. The author of Ephesians seems similarly unaware of any historical Jesus. That enhances to likelihood that there was no historical Jesus for either writer to have heard about.

dog-on

Bingo

patcleaver

It is not true that your apologetic spin is the "obvious meaning". Your interpretation does not make any sense at all unless your presuppositions are accepted.

This Christ Jesus could be based on Joshua of the OT, or the Teacher of Righteousness died in 65-63 BCE, or some pagan God of some mystery religion, or just some dream that Paul shared with other apostles of some dream interpretation cult. There is no indication here at all that the resurrection of Christ Jesus is a recent occurrence - only that Paul’s insight is a recent occurrence.

Ephesians 2:13-17
Ephesians 4:8 These do not support your assertion that Paul believes or teaches that the death and resurrection of Christ is a recent occurrence.

sschlichter

Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace

Eph 1:12 so that we, who were the first to set our hope on Christ, would be to the praise of his glory.

Eph 1:20 This power he exercised in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms

Eph 3:5 Now this secret was not disclosed to people in former generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles

These passages tend to make me think he is talking about recent events. They were the first to hope in Christ (hope of forgiveness of sins and redemption) , who rose from the dead. This was not disclosed in former generations, but has now been revealed to the apostles.

Other passages confirm this.

Rom 3:25 God publicly displayed him at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith.
Rom 3:26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus' faithfulness.

~Steve

andrewcriddle

There are several issues here: (for simplicity I'm going to refer to the writer of Ephesians as Paul although I strongly doubt the Pauline authorship.)

a/ Paul refers to a mystery hidden for ages past which must be referring to something far more ancient than the teacher of righteousness c 100 BCE. ie Paul is not saying here that Christ Jesus died and rose a few hundred years ago, but this has only recently been understood or revealed. Paul is contrasting something of extreme antiquity with what has very recently happened.
b/ Ephesians 2:13-17 indicates that the death of Christ meant that the division in God's sight between Jews and Gentiles has come to an end. This only makes sense if the death of Christ occurs after the division between Jews and Gentiles has been established (ie after the Law has been given) and is much more plausible if the death of Christ occurs after the later temple has been built with its clear division into areas open to Gentiles and areas for Jews only. This seems to be placing the actual death of Christ much more recently than something occurring in past ages. (Myself I find utterly implausible the idea that Paul believed that God had long ago done all that was necessary to end the division between Jews and Gentiles but that people have only recently realized this. However, others may well disagree.)
c/ The preaching of peace by Christ in Ephesians 2:17 does seem to be a recent event and there is no indication that this is something long long after the death of Christ mentioned a verse or so earlier.
d/ Ephesians 4:8 seems to date the giving of gifts by Christ to the time of Christ's ascension. Subsequent verses make clear that Paul identifies this giving of gifts with the (recent) establishment of the Church.
e/ I should have discussed Ephesians 2:10 which refers not to a recent revelation on earth of what God has done in Christ but a revelation in the heavens. IE if you interpret Paul as referring to an ancient death and resurrection recently revealed, then this is not an ancient event known in heaven but only recently revealed on earth. Its revelation in heaven is recent. I have problems with making sense of an ancient death and revelation hidden until recently in heaven as well as on earth.

Andrew Criddle