Chili

Oh shit, now I'll get a whole stack of 2 by 4's coming my way.

jbernier

Don't mean to be anal but I think it is Ussher, with two 's's. Okay, I do mean to be anal but please forgive me...

Also, equally anal, there is no '0 BC.'

No, I don't know of any YECs who use Ussher's complete work. If I recall his date was popularized because it was included in the footnotes to certain editions of the KJV at some point (that it was Scofield who first included it is stuck in my mind but I am not at all sure about that). Indeed, I think that very few YECs would be able to tell you that the 4004 BC date came from Archbishop Ussher, not to mention know of any of his other work!

woodstock memories

Does that mean that the world is a Libra?

Good Omens

Sparrow

Gee, thanks, I think. Yes, fries would be nice, and quite a bit more filling than what follows.

Perhaps some additional education in brain function and physiology would serve you, but this, along with the snipped parts, makes no sense to me, especially in regards to the request earlier.

I'm sorry if you think I'm being inconsiderate; if so it's not intentional. I don't know what you mean by the 2 x 4. The original request asked for a verifiable coommunication from someone after their death. This would prove that some part or aspect of a person can survive death. As far as I am aware, no one has ever shown anything remotely similar. If you know of such a case, the simple facts needed to verify it would be sufficient.

Is the ark all religion? A specific religion? I'm having trouble following your response to the question asked.

Chili

But that is exactly what I gave you with the only difference that according to you eternal life begins after we physically die and to me it begins when our ego dies (our ego is our persona or personhood which is a condition of being that tells us something about the being). The examples I gave you is from people who wrote about after they died.

Clivedurdle

Umble apologies, it is Ussher! Too many fantasies about cinemas.....

I understand it is the 1701 version of the KJV that first put this date into its footnotes.

What is fascinating is how many different biblical chronologies there were! Isaac Newton spent ten years on this problem. cutler comments that a seventeenth century priest compiled a catalogue of seventy different biblical chronologies known to him. by the early eighteenth century there were hundreds!

"Was the flood in the year 1656 after creation, or the year 2256 0r the year 3882?

Little problems occurred when Jesuits returned from China with details of complete historical records going back 4000 years, and the discovery of civilasitions in the Americas also claiming very long histories. An early theory was of pre Adamic races who were the "men" in Genesis 1 and adam and Eve in Ch 2 as a later creation.

If they can't get the past right, not a lot of hope for prophecying the future!

Clivedurdle

Googling gave this.

Newton's Date for the Crucifixion

This comments that Ussher's 4004 date is a "fix". All he did was start from the as then agreed date of Jesus's birth 4 BC and go back four days or ages! And I thought he had added up all the geneologies and begats!

Sparrow

You did not provide verifiable information. You redefined 'death' and responded with blithering nonsense.

Dean Anderson

Well, a literalist reading of Genesis makes it quite clear that either the 1656 date is correct, or Genesis is not accurate (in which case no dating can be done).

Genesis is obsessed with people's ages. It gives the age that everyone dies, and gives the age of each parent when their child is born.

Given that it also gives the age of Noah when the flood happens, it is easy to count both backwards and forwards from that date.

We can go back as far as the creation of Adam, and forward as far as the death of Jacob.

In 1656 BF, Adam is created
In 1526 BF, Seth is born to Adam (Gen 5:3)
In 1421 BF, Enosh is born to Seth (Gen 5:6)
In 1331 BF, Kenan is born to Enosh (Gen 5:9)
In 1261 BF, Mahalel is born to Kenan (Gen 5:12)
In 1196 BF, Jared is born to Mahalel (Gen 5:15)
In 1034 BF, Enoch is born to Jared (Gen 5:18)
In 969 BF, Methuselah is born to Enoch (Gen 5:25)
In 782 BF, Lamech is born to Methuselah (Gen 5:28)
In 726 BF, Adam dies (Gen 5:4)
In 669 BF, Enoch dies (Gen 5:22)
In 614 BC, Seth dies (Gen 5:7)
In 600 BF, Noah is born to Lamech (Gen 7:6)
In 516 BF, Enosh dies (Gen 5:10)
In 426 BF, Kenan dies (Gen 5:13)
In 396 BF, Mahalel dies (Gen 5:16)
In 187 BF, Lamech dies (Gen 5:30)
In 98 BF, Shem is born to Noah (Gen 11:10)
In 0 AF, Methuselah dies - presumably in the flood (Gen 5:27)
In 2 AF, Arphaxad is born to Shem (Gen 11:10)
In 37 AF, Shelah is born to Arphaxad (Gen 11:12)
In 67 AF, Eber is born to Shelah (Gen 11:14)
In 101 AF, Peleg is born to Eber (Gen 11:16)
In 131 AF, Reu is born to Peleg (Gen 11:18)
In 163 Af, Serug is born to Reu (Gen 11:20)
In 193 AF, Nahor is born to Serug (Gen 11:22)
In 222 AF, Terah is born to Nahor (Gen 11:24)
In 292 AF, Abram/Abraham is born to Terah (Gen 11:16)
In 302 AF, Sarai/Sarah is born (Gen 17:17)
In 340 AF, Peleg dies (Gen 11:19)
In 341 AF, Nahor dies (Gen 11:25)
In 350 AF, Noah dies (Gen 9:28)
In 367 AF, Abram/Abraham leaves Haram (Gen 12:4)
In 370 AF, Reu dies (Gen 11:21)
In 378 AF, Ishmael is born to Abram/Abraham (Gen 16:16)
In 391 AF, Abram changes his name to Abraham (Gen 17:1)
In 391 AF, Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed (one year before Isaac's birth - see Gen 18)
In 392 AF, Isaac is born to Abram/Abraham (Gen 21:5)
In 393 AF, Serug dies (Gen 11:23)
In 427 AF, Terah dies (Gen 11:32)
In 429 AF, Sarah dies (Gen 23:1)
In 432 AF, Isaac marries Rebekah (Gen 25:20)
In 438 AF, Arphaxad dies (Gen 11:13)
In 452 AF, Jacob/Israel and Esau born to Isaac (Gen 25:26)
In 467 AF, Abraham dies (Gen 25:7)
In 470 AF, Shelah dies (Gen 11:15)
In 492 AF, Esau marries Judith and Basemath (Gen 26:34)
In 502 AF, Shem dies (Gen 11,11)
In 515 AF, Ishmael dies (Gen 25:17)
In 531 AF, Eber dies (Gen 11:17)
In 572 AF, Isaac dies (Gen 35:28)
In 582 AF, Jacob/Israel comes to Egypt with Isrealites (Gen 35:28)
In 599 AF, Jacob/Israel dies (Gen 35:28)
In ??? AF, Joseph dies aged 110 (Gen 50:26)
In 982? AF, Exodus occurs (400 years after Isrealites enter Egypt) (Gen 15:3)

Of course, this timeline has multiple thriving civilisations being present (as evidenced by Abram's travels) less than 400 years after the whole population is wiped out bar four people, but that is a minor point...

Edited to add: Yes, I was sad enough to sit there for an hour or two going through the book of Genesis with a pencil and paper (and a calculator)...

Dean Anderson

Many apologists have claimed that the Exodus happened during the reign of Pharoah Rameses II.

Since he lived from 1279-1213EBC, this would place the flood at 2261-2195BCE during the reign of Pharoah Pepi II.

Unfortunately, the Egyptians forgot to mention it.

It would also place the creation of Adam between 3917 and 3851 BCE.



Conversely, If we take Ussher's 4004BCE date for Adam's creation, we get a date for the flood of 2348BCE, during the reign of Pharoah Teti (who also mysteriously forgot to mention every single person dying and Egypt being recolonised in later years by Noah's descendents) - and a date for the Exodus of 1366BCE, during the reign of Amenhotep III.

Surprisingly enough, Amenhotep III or his scribes never mention the Exodus, either.