Freethought & Rationalism Archive

J-D · 01-20-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agenda07

So, do you accept that the Trojan War occured as described by Homer, that it was triggered by a squabble between three godesses over a golden apple inscribed with the phrase "to the fairest", that Ajax was the brother of a man who was virtually invulnerable as a result of having been dunked in the Styx by his mother and that the war was won with the help of an enormous wooden equine?

Ajax was the cousin of Achilles, not the brother. Since you mention it.

arnoldo · 01-24-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Quote:

Originally Posted by reniaa

As I have said many times before in other threads, for other historical documents and suchlike we ask for a lot less evidence before believing them as fact! than we do of the bible, which people from a frantic point of view ask for more and more proof till we get to the situation we are now, enough proof for one side but never enough for the other.

This is simply false. You have been given the following example before: Troy has been found, and Mycene, and Knosos. Do you believe therefore in Zeus and Athena, do you believe in the Minotaur? Are you asking more proof from "a frantic point of view" before believing in Zeus? Is there any indication for an Exodus,

Yes, satellite imagery is playing a major role in documenting events which happened thousands of years ago.

Species8472 · 01-24-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Yes, satellite imagery is playing a major role in documenting events which happened thousands of years ago.

They do indeed play a role in discovering subterranean structures, including ruins.

Sheshonq · 01-24-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

This is simply false. You have been given the following example before: Troy has been found, and Mycene, and Knosos. Do you believe therefore in Zeus and Athena, do you believe in the Minotaur? Are you asking more proof from "a frantic point of view" before believing in Zeus? Is there any indication for an Exodus,

Yes, satellite imagery is playing a major role in documenting events which happened thousands of years ago.

But not in proving any Exodus.

Oops. :rolling:

arnoldo · 01-24-2008, 08:05 PM

There is definite evidence from extra-biblical sources that Israel existed thousands of years ago and is not just another myth like "Atlantis."

http://archaeology.southern.edu/dev/docs/stela.pdf

Sheshonq · 01-24-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

There is definite evidence from extra-biblical sources that Israel existed thousands of years ago and is not just another myth like "Atlantis."

http://archaeology.southern.edu/dev/docs/stela.pdf

Uh, no.

Try doing a search here on threads with the word "stela" in it.

spamandham · 01-24-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

There is definite evidence from extra-biblical sources that Israel existed thousands of years ago and is not just another myth like "Atlantis."

http://archaeology.southern.edu/dev/docs/stela.pdf

Are there any mainstream historians that dispute the existence of Israel thousands of years ago? If the oldest parts of the OT were penned 2700 years ago, then it stands to reason that the nations they mention probably existed even longer than that. So evidence that Israel existed say 1200 BCE or older is not astonishing.

arnoldo · 01-24-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

There is definite evidence from extra-biblical sources that Israel existed thousands of years ago and is not just another myth like "Atlantis."

http://archaeology.southern.edu/dev/docs/stela.pdf

Are there any mainstream historians that dispute the existence of Israel thousands of years ago? If the oldest parts of the OT were penned 2700 years ago, then it stands to reason that the nations they mention probably existed even longer than that. So evidence that Israel existed say 1200 BCE or older is not astonishing.

I'm sure the Torah accurately records historical events well into 1000 BCE to give a conservative date. We know for a fact that the Torah was translated into the Septuagint:Greek Translation in 250 BCE. I just don't understand how some people can glibly state King David and Solomon and the nation of Israel is a myth.

spamandham · 01-24-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

I just don't understand how some people can glibly state King David and Solomon and the nation of Israel is a myth.

That's something different. Simply because Israel existed, does not imply that David and Solomon existed. That said, I seem to recall steles that mention both of them by name. Silberman and Finkelstein claim they did exist (going from memory here), but were not the grand glorious rulers portrayed in the Torah, but rather, were more like tribal chiefs.

Sheshonq · 01-24-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Are there any mainstream historians that dispute the existence of Israel thousands of years ago? If the oldest parts of the OT were penned 2700 years ago, then it stands to reason that the nations they mention probably existed even longer than that. So evidence that Israel existed say 1200 BCE or older is not astonishing.

I'm sure the Torah accurately records historical events well into 1000 BCE to give a conservative date.

Oh.

You're "sure". Well, that certainly puts our minds to rest. Hey everyone, arnoldo is "sure".

In point of fact, Torah is only the first five books. Its alleged record of events stops well before 1000 BCE, even if a person accepts it literally. Tossing around the Jewish term only got you into trouble.

Secondly, you'll have to do better than claiming that you are "sure". What proof do you have of historical accuracy (regardless of the timeframe)?

Quote:

We know for a fact that the Torah was translated into the Septuagint:Greek Translation in 250 BCE.

And how does the fact that a translation into Greek occurred almost a millennia later somehow provide proof that the text is correct?

Quote:

I just don't understand how some people can glibly state King David and Solomon and the nation of Israel is a myth.

That's OK. You haven't done any self-education, so it's not surprising that you don't understand the basics.

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01-24-2008, 08:05 PM	#75
arnoldo Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Latin America Posts: 4,066	There is definite evidence from extra-biblical sources that Israel existed thousands of years ago and is not just another myth like "Atlantis." http://archaeology.southern.edu/dev/docs/stela.pdf

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