Freethought & Rationalism Archive

QRUEL · 09-01-2006, 12:07 PM

It was my understanding that heaven doesn't open for business "UNTIL" christ returns.

upon a faithfuls death, I always hear christians say that the dead is now in heaven, because the deaceased accepted jeesus christ as their savior.

so is heaven open or what ?

and what about that purgatory place ?

Doug Shaver · 09-02-2006, 06:25 AM

Christians do not all believe the same thing about heaven. Nor do they all believe that Jesus will be coming back to this world.

Roger Pearse · 09-02-2006, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRUEL

so is heaven open or what ?

and what about that purgatory place ?

Details of either would seem to be of no useful interest to anyone in this forum, surely?

Much more relevant to most here is the fact that you have to pay good money even to get into hell, or else spend eternity wandering in bodiless torment on the banks of the styx. I wonder if Charon takes American Express?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Loomis · 09-02-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRUEL

upon a faithfuls death, I always hear christians say that the dead is now in heaven, because the deaceased accepted jeesus christ as their savior.

Have you ever read Psalm 37:7~11?

Quote:

Rest in Yahweh, and wait patiently for him. Don't fret because of him who prospers in his way, because of the man who makes wicked plots happen.

Cease from anger, and forsake wrath. Don't fret, it leads only to evildoing.

For evildoers shall be cut off, but those who wait for Yahweh shall inherit the earth.

For yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more. Yes, though you look for his place, he isn't there.

But the humble shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

The guy who wrote this wanted his readers to think that the bad guys died and the good guys stayed on earth.

All the best,

Loomis

QRUEL · 09-03-2006, 09:30 AM

since this is BC&H I was expecting bible verses supporting that indeed heaven is NOT open until christs return, which would mean that christians have a misunderstanding in regards to the deceased goign directly to heaven

Doug Shaver · 09-04-2006, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRUEL

since this is BC&H I was expecting bible verses supporting that indeed heaven is NOT open until christs return

I could find some proof texts for you, if that's what you're looking for, but it would take more time than I have at my immediate disposal. I will note, however, that the main reason Christians are not agreed about heaven is that the Bible's teachings on the subject are inconsistent, to say nothing of their vagueness.

QRUEL · 09-04-2006, 09:08 PM

okay then, I can accept that the bible gives various information about "when" heaven will open for business

lets open this thread up to what different opinions people have and why.

is the overwhelming concensus that heaven opens upon jesus return or that it's already open ?

Tigers! · 09-04-2006, 10:30 PM

Since Heaven is God's home and he lives there then yes it is open for business. But I daresay your question is broader than that.

QRUEL · 09-04-2006, 10:48 PM

I was looking for biblical scripture that would back up the frequent assertation that people immediately go to heaven when they die.

does biblical text support or refute this ? ...examples please

pharoah · 09-05-2006, 01:37 AM

Luke's famous parable about Abraham and Lazarus seems to support immediate judgement upon death. Most of the rest of scriptures concerning the afterlife, notably Revelations, seem to indicate that all of the dead will be judged at one time. These two scenarios cannot be reconciled with each other.

09-01-2006, 12:07 PM	#1
QRUEL Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 121	Is heaven open for business ? It was my understanding that heaven doesn't open for business "UNTIL" christ returns. upon a faithfuls death, I always hear christians say that the dead is now in heaven, because the deaceased accepted jeesus christ as their savior. so is heaven open or what ? and what about that purgatory place ?

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09-02-2006, 06:25 AM	#2
Doug Shaver Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Bernardino, Calif. Posts: 5,435	Christians do not all believe the same thing about heaven. Nor do they all believe that Jesus will be coming back to this world.

09-03-2006, 09:30 AM	#5
QRUEL Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 121	since this is BC&H I was expecting bible verses supporting that indeed heaven is NOT open until christs return, which would mean that christians have a misunderstanding in regards to the deceased goign directly to heaven

09-04-2006, 09:08 PM	#7
QRUEL Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 121	okay then, I can accept that the bible gives various information about "when" heaven will open for business lets open this thread up to what different opinions people have and why. is the overwhelming concensus that heaven opens upon jesus return or that it's already open ?

09-04-2006, 10:30 PM	#8
Tigers! Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On the wing, waiting for a kick Posts: 2,558	Since Heaven is God's home and he lives there then yes it is open for business. But I daresay your question is broader than that.

09-04-2006, 10:48 PM	#9
QRUEL Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 121	I was looking for biblical scripture that would back up the frequent assertation that people immediately go to heaven when they die. does biblical text support or refute this ? ...examples please

09-05-2006, 01:37 AM	#10
pharoah Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,729	Luke's famous parable about Abraham and Lazarus seems to support immediate judgement upon death. Most of the rest of scriptures concerning the afterlife, notably Revelations, seem to indicate that all of the dead will be judged at one time. These two scenarios cannot be reconciled with each other.

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