Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 04-28-2010, 12:08 PM

Umberto Eco has written a trilogy on beauty, ugliness and lists

Quote:

In 2007 Bompiani published a similar non-fiction work by Umberto Eco, "Dall'Albero al Labrinto: Studi Storici sul Segno e l'Interpretazione," that investigated the histories of sign and interpretation alongside the history of encyclopedistics.

Its aim was to more fully examine organization as a human phenomenon.

"The Infinity of Lists," I believe, continues this examination by identifying the nature of lists across time. In short, Eco appears to be following a particular trend with his recent research - one that explores our immense fascination with the organization of content and its many forms.

The Infinity of Lists (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Lists are all over the place in the Bible, and in fact one with a myriad begats has led to a set of beliefs held by a huge number of Americans.

Lists are also very famous in unread parts of Homer and in annual supplications to Santa.

Has anyone asked how lists might have created the religions we have?

Genesis 1 - it is a list and it organises! And God said....

And it is all about beauty and ugliness, or heaven and hell.

mountainman · 04-28-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Has anyone asked how lists might have created the religions we have?

People have suggested the existence of a Q - a list of sayings.
This does not explain how or why this list was distributed between the tetrarchy of gospels.
Lists are flat, One dimensional. Something could be added.

Quote:

Genesis 1 - it is a list and it organises! And God said....

Let there be a light shining in the back office 24 X 7!
And God ceated the database.
The databases of antiquity were called tables.
Multi-column spreadsheets.
Primitive databases.
See the Hexapla of Origen for example.

In regard to the NT Eusebius waved around the Gospel canon tables.
These represent the superset for Q. Sayings plus events.
They were prepared by Ammonias.
Who was Ammonias? Which Ammonias?
Ammonias Saccas the founder of Neoplatonism?

You see the great mathematical ability of the Greeks
was given a great honor when Eusebius attributed the
invention of the ten tables of the gospel tetrarchy
to the father of Neoplatonism.

Do we have a list of dishonest historians?
Yes -- see the pagan stack in the corner.
All the Early Christian historians were totally honest.

Quote:

And it is all about beauty and ugliness, or heaven and hell.

And the orders given to the legions of "The Boss" just outside the city gates.
We must not forget that the really important lists were "owned".
Diocletian ordered for the preparation of a master taxation list
for all the "more important" tax paying people in all the "dioceses" in the Roman Empire.
Constantine "inherited" and may have also used this list to streamline maximal taxation.
See Inflation and the Fall of the Roman Empire

darstec · 04-30-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Umberto Eco has written a trilogy on beauty, ugliness and lists

Quote:

In 2007 Bompiani published a similar non-fiction work by Umberto Eco, "Dall'Albero al Labrinto: Studi Storici sul Segno e l'Interpretazione," that investigated the histories of sign and interpretation alongside the history of encyclopedistics.

Its aim was to more fully examine organization as a human phenomenon.

"The Infinity of Lists," I believe, continues this examination by identifying the nature of lists across time. In short, Eco appears to be following a particular trend with his recent research - one that explores our immense fascination with the organization of content and its many forms.

The Infinity of Lists (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Lists are all over the place in the Bible, and in fact one with a myriad begats has led to a set of beliefs held by a huge number of Americans.

Lists are also very famous in unread parts of Homer and in annual supplications to Santa.

Has anyone asked how lists might have created the religions we have?

Genesis 1 - it is a list and it organises! And God said....

And it is all about beauty and ugliness, or heaven and hell.

How very spooky. I just started reading a book on lists by Atul Gawande called The Checklist Manifesto: How to Get Things Right (or via: amazon.co.uk) which is about how checklists serve to eliminate or control death and disease, prevent accidents. solve problems and create wealth.

[note to moderators] Why do all the amazon links show up linking to UK when I am using the US version?

Toto · 04-30-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darstec

...
[note to moderators] Why do all the amazon links show up linking to UK when I am using the US version?

The first link goes to amazon.com in the US, and the UK version is added on as a special feature for our British friends.

Clivedurdle · 04-30-2010, 09:55 PM

I have also just read Gawande and forgot he also prompted me to start this discussion.

Lists are ways we try to control the world and life.

With beauty (good?) and ugliness (evil) have we a far better way to approach understanding the gods and our love of them?

The power of lists is incredible - the volcanic ash issues, surgery and the creation of the world in Genesis. The Genesis tale also contains the story of the fall.

The Gospels are also about the battle of good and evil and contain many lists. Maybe they are not incidental but core to the structure - the Lambs book of Life is a wondrous list of every word ever spoken.

http://clivedurdle.wordpress.com/201...t-want-to-die/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...ife-checklists

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...659577,00.html

Quote:

“Umberto Eco: The list is the origin of culture. It’s part of the history of art and literature. What does culture want? To make infinity comprehensible. It also wants to create order — not always, but often. And how, as a human being, does one face infinity? How does one attempt to grasp the incomprehensible? Through lists, through catalogs, through collections in museums and through encyclopedias and dictionaries. There is an allure to enumerating how many women Don Giovanni slept with: It was 2,063, at least according to Mozart’s librettist, Lorenzo da Ponte. We also have completely practical lists — the shopping list, the will, the menu — that are also cultural achievements in their own right.

SPIEGEL: Should the cultured person be understood as a custodian looking to impose order on places where chaos prevails?

Eco: The list doesn’t destroy culture; it creates it. Wherever you look in cultural history, you will find lists. In fact, there is a dizzying array: lists of saints, armies and medicinal plants, or of treasures and book titles. Think of the nature collections of the 16th century. My novels, by the way, are full of lists.”

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