Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spin · 10-10-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilate

Had you guys showed respect, I could have contributed a lot more to your site.

One earns respect.

guru

Chris Weimer · 10-11-2005, 05:10 PM

Earl Doherty has been wrong before. Personally, I think him unconvincing on the "kata sarka" phrase. But that is neither here nor there. You still are evidenceless, appealing to authority as usual.

cass256 · 10-13-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilate

Earl Doherty joined the fundies in the "conspiracy" to deny the Jews of their heritage: the Hebrew tongue. :Cheeky:
Remember that argument that Josephus talked Hebrew to the Jews in Jerusalem?
Well, here is what Earl Doherty wrote about Josephus:
"The Jewish War was written in Aramaic for use in the east, designed to discourage further revolt against Rome. That initial version has been lost."The Jesus Puzzle, page 205. :thumbs:
Had you guys showed respect, I could have contributed a lot more to your site.

I picked up a translation of the Peshitta by an Assyrian born Dr. Lamsa and also his Aramaic light on the Gospel of John (A commentary on the Teachings of Jesus from the Aramaic and unchanged Near Eastern Customs) A few points of interest. I don't know, maybe the guy is a nit, but he states under a section called THE HEBREW LANGUAGE that where jn 19:19-20 has that the title on the cross was written in Hebrew and Greek and latin, but that

Quote:

Hebrew here mens Aramaic, the language of the people at the time.

As a foot note in the New Testament translation as well he states;

Quote:

"Hebrew" here refers to nationality but the language of the inscription was Aramaic.

In the Light on John, it goes on

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Hebrew is the name of a race and not the language. The Jews spoke Aramaic after their return from Babylon. Hebrew primarily derives from Aramaic. The two languages are so alike one can hardly make distinctions.

Then as well, under "THE HEBREW LANGUAGE" after a bit more text he has several indented paragraphs.

Quote:

...josephus considers Aramaic so thoroughly identical with Hebrew that he quotes Aramaic words as Hebrew ("Ant" iii, 10, section 6), and describes the language in which titus' proposals to the Jerusalemites were made (which certainly were in Aramaic) as Hebrew ("B.J." vi 2, section1). It was in Aramaic that Josephus had written his book on the "Jewish War" as he himself informs us in the introduction, before he wrote it in Greek....
...In Hebrew philology, Aramaic was especially useful in the explanation of Hebrew words in the Bible; and it served as the foundation for a comparative philology for the Semite languages inaugurated by Judah in the Koreish and Saadia....
...For more than a thousand years Aramaic remained the vernacular of israel, until the conquests of the Arabs produced another linguistic change, as a sequel of which a third semitic language became the popular tongue for a large portion of the Jewish race, and the vehicle of their thought. The spread of Arabian supremacy over the whole country formerly dominated by the Aramaic tongue produced with exstraordinary rapidity and completeness an Arabizing of both the Christian and Jewish populations of western Asia, who had hitherto spoken Aramaic (Syriac)...5

Quote:

5 From THE JEWISH ENCYLOPEDIA, Vol. 2, published by Funk and Wagnails Co., New york and London by special permission.

Does that mean I have to have special permission to post that quote too? (I tried to check all the Caps i missed with my finiky shift key. Sorry if I may have missed a few)

Chris Weimer · 10-13-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass256

I picked up a translation of the Peshitta by an Assyrian born Dr. Lamsa and also his Aramaic light on the Gospel of John (A commentary on the Teachings of Jesus from the Aramaic and unchanged Near Eastern Customs)

Wow, I'm hardly surprised that you appealed to yet another so-called authority without giving any evidence at all!

judge · 10-13-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

...josephus considers Aramaic so thoroughly identical with Hebrew that he quotes Aramaic words as Hebrew ("Ant" iii, 10, section 6), and describes the language in which titus' proposals to the Jerusalemites were made (which certainly were in Aramaic) as Hebrew ("B.J." vi 2, section1).

Thanks for that info Cass

cass256 · 10-13-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Wow, I'm hardly surprised that you appealed to yet another so-called authority without giving any evidence at all!

cass256 · 10-14-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass256

Ok, let me try it this way for the attendee of the school for athiestic argument.. As a neophite, I am afraid I didn't know all the rules. Cry "appeal to Authority" and apply sarcasm. it seems the simple calling it Appeal to Authority doesn't work without excessive sarcasm.. (Especially when there may be an Authority) Unless you use enough sarcasm to bring the poster down to your level and off topic. well i find that you're pushing the boundaries of the atheistic rules:

Quote:

Appeals to Authority

Your Guide to Agnosticism / Atheism.

Legitimate Appeal to Authority
Fallacy Name:

Category:
Fallacy of Relevance > Appeals to Authority

Explanation:
Not every reliance upon the testimony of authority figures is fallacious. We often rely upon such testimony, and we can do so for very good reason. Their talent, training and experience put them in a position to evaluate and report on evidence not readily available to everyone else. But we must keep in mind that for such an appeal to be justified, certain standards must be met:

The authority is an expert in the area of knowledge under consideration.The statement of the authority concerns his or her area of mastery..

i do not think I should be put down for citing an expert in the field, and translator of the New Testament of the Peshitta, raised and schooled in the East, (not as in east of Tennesee) graduated with highest honors with Bachelors, then Doctor of Theology, further seminary study in the US in seminary, and University, in Va, then Pa. His life study has been in the biblical studies, and writings in their original language. According to the above mentioned rule of Athiestic argument.. the sarcastic side comments are just plain rude. If you have something to say about the authority, feel free.. I am not trying to be right, I'm still learning. I haven't checked out Dr. Errico's qualifications. But, I really haven't gotten a good grasp on josephus' as yet either.

judge · 10-14-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cass256

i do not think I should be put down for citing an expert in the field, and translator of the New Testament of the Peshitta, raised and schooled in the East, (not as in east of Tennesee) graduated with highest honors with Bachelors, then Doctor of Theology, further seminary study in the US in seminary, and University, in Va, then Pa. His life study has been in the biblical studies, and writings in their original language. According to the above mentioned rule of Athiestic argument.. the sarcastic side comments are just plain rude. .

Just lower your expectations of people here.

Have a laugh about it.

cass256 · 10-15-2005, 06:18 AM

If I keep reminding myself I am dealing with atheists, I think I will have less of a tendency to respond badly. I should have expected they would bring out the worst in me.

Thanks judge! :thumbs:

Amaleq13 · 10-15-2005, 10:02 AM

This has less to do with atheism than it does rational thought. A rational discussion of an issue is better served by presenting the evidence that lead certain experts to a given conclusion than just offering the names and credentials of the experts with whom one agrees.

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10-11-2005, 05:10 PM	#342
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Earl Doherty has been wrong before. Personally, I think him unconvincing on the "kata sarka" phrase. But that is neither here nor there. You still are evidenceless, appealing to authority as usual.

10-15-2005, 06:18 AM	#349
cass256 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: home Posts: 265	If I keep reminding myself I am dealing with atheists, I think I will have less of a tendency to respond badly. I should have expected they would bring out the worst in me. Thanks judge! :thumbs:

10-15-2005, 10:02 AM	#350
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	This has less to do with atheism than it does rational thought. A rational discussion of an issue is better served by presenting the evidence that lead certain experts to a given conclusion than just offering the names and credentials of the experts with whom one agrees.

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