Chris Weimer

His Heavenly Host, of course. What, do you think he never talks to angels? Besides, it can't be Jesus. Jesus was conceived. Jesus could not technically be prexistent since he was technically human. And being human means that he has DNA. He couldn't have existed without DNA, and he couldn't have prexisted with DNA as himself.

CaliNORML

There is the use of a very strict plural in this story, I did not ever see it in the begining that way; I only know of the reference in relation to creating man.

My view personaly is the "us" and "our" was in a way pointing to all the creatures, mammals especially. The larger frontal brain above the reptile in our heads, the "motherly love" we developed in the form of defense and sacrifice for our young, most mammals are on land, we all share the same genetic characteristics, and mammals move differenet along the spine than fish, snakes, and all other reptiles.

My opinion as I read this passage is it was the mammals he was talking to, not another "God;" after all were they not also a part of his creation as well?

KMS

Sheshbazzar

"B'rey'sheeth bara Elohim......" "In the beginning created Elohim......" Gen.i:1

"V'omer Elohim YAH'HE ore, v'YAH'HE ore------ "And said Elohim let HIM BE light, and HE WAS LIGHT" Genesis 1:3

B'rey'sheeth HA'YAH ha'dabar------ "In the beginning HE WAS the Word,
v'ha'dabar HA'YAH eyth ha'Elohim------"and the Word, HE WAS with The Elohim",
v'Elohim HA'YAH ha'dabar.------"and Elohim HE WAS The Word."
Hua HA'YAH b'rey'sheeth ay'tzel ha' Elohim------"Existing HE WAS in the beginning with the Elohim." John 1:1-2
Hallelu-HU, Hallelu-YAH!......."Praise you HIM, Praise you YAH"

Phlox Pyros

One other thing that I forgot to mention here in this thread about "Elohim" being God (singular)...

You can tell when Elohim means God as opposed to Gods because the verbs that follow are in singular form as opposed to plural form.

Genesis 1:1 is a case in point.

Loomis

Which verbs?

If you only have one verb and one noun then how do you know it isn’t the verb that is broken?

Loomis

I agree that the Elohim in Genesis 1 is probably singular. But it still says “let us make mankind in our image.” This is probably a reference to some kind of girlfriend god like Asherah. (I can’t remember Aten’s girlfriend’s name.)

Like I said before, the first creation story is some kind of remix of Psalm 104. It looks to me like the guy who used “Elohim” in Genesis 1 didn’t understand that the word used to be plural.

Further, the author of Isaiah 45 was definitely pissed off at the author of Genesis 1 about something.

Just read.

Genesis 1:1~2

In the beginning The Elohim created the heavens and the earth.

Now the earth was a waste and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep …

Isaiah 45:18

This is what Yahweh says,

the one who created the sky –

he is the real “Elohim,”

the one who formed the earth and made it;

he established it,

he did not create it “a waste,”

he formed it to be inhabited –

“I am Yahweh, I have no peer.”

Phlox Pyros

Actually, my belief is that the "us" refers to the heavenly beings, most likely the archangels. There are plenty of other references to the angels. In another thread, I referenced one of them...Rev. 1:4.

Phlox Pyros

...bara...3rd person singular...The same phenomenon happens elsewhere, but I really don't feel like pointing out all the instances. I do, however, encourage you to learn Hebrew, as I think you would find it interesting (in all sincerity).

I'm afraid I don't understand this. It is not just one verb and one noun. This happens throughout the OT.

Loomis

If you aren’t willing to support your claims with facts then why should anyone respect you?

Loomis

Then lets set aside the new stuff and go back and talk about Second Isaiah. Do you understand what I am saying about Isaiah 45:18 vs. Genesis 1?