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Old 11-05-2004, 05:19 PM   #1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inquisitive01
Also, there IS a difference between men's clothes and women's clothes (pants included). Men don't normally wear dresses.
But I wear an article of clothing that is often refered to as a skirt. Or a "man skirt" It is a masculine style skirt which is popular in amongst the Celts in my city. (Women love it. BTW.)

No matter what you call it it is the same overall type of garment that women wear, but made out of canvas. (I even wear my skirt to church and our cathedral dean wants one!) So isn't dress culturally and temporally determined? How do I know what God meant by women's clothes?

www.utilikilts.com

In otherwords, that law is silly because we have no reference point.
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Old 11-05-2004, 07:06 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Nice Squirrel
But I wear an article of clothing that is often refered to as a skirt. Or a "man skirt" It is a masculine style skirt which is popular in amongst the Celts in my city. (Women love it. BTW.)

No matter what you call it it is the same overall type of garment that women wear, but made out of canvas. (I even wear my skirt to church and our cathedral dean wants one!) So isn't dress culturally and temporally determined? How do I know what God meant by women's clothes?

www.utilikilts.com

In otherwords, that law is silly because we have no reference point.


Are you saying "man" skirt" = "woman skirt" (and do women wear "man skirts" as well?)?

How do you know? Do you not know what men normally wear as compared to what women normally wear? The following are examples:
  • Men don't normally wear panties.
  • Men don't normally wear bras.
  • Men don't normally wear dresses or skirts designed for women only (and women don't normally wear skirts designed for men only).
  • Women don't normally wear a 3-piece suit.
  • Women don't normally wear men's underwear.
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Old 11-05-2004, 07:08 PM   #3
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Deleted reply to Inquistive's nonsense, as it is off-topic for the thread.
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Old 11-05-2004, 08:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inquisitive01
I don't feel like I'm "grasping" at anything. Perhaps He felt the ABUSE of slavery was bad (as likely did other people).
What's abuse of slavery? Do you mean abuse of slaves? If that is the case, then Jesus condoned slavery, right?

Quote:
Also, there IS a difference between men's clothes and women's clothes (pants included). Men don't normally wear dresses.
So what did God mean when he said it was an abomination for women to wear men's clothing? Do you think he just wanted to make sure they were in the women's department of Sears before they bought their Levis? What specific items of clothing "pertaineth" to a man and which to a woman? And what is the big huge difference between Levis that it is an abomination?

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(Continued from last post...) Some Christians also engage in homosexuality, some commit fraud, some hold up (rob) gas stations, etc. Doesn't make it right. Again, what's your point?
We are not talking about breaking the laws of society, we are talking about breaking the laws of the Bible.

This WHOLE discussion is about the Christians persecuting homosexuals by banning gay marriage, based on the Bible. We KNOW that Christians commit crime, we are wondering WHY they care so much about homosexuality, but don't give a shit about eating shellfish or getting divorced. What gives them the right to pick and choose which Biblical laws are important?

Why aren't they trying to get a Constitutional Amendement that truly "protects marriage" by banning divorce?
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Old 11-07-2004, 07:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inquisitive01
Are you saying "man" skirt" = "woman skirt" (and do women wear "man skirts" as well?)?

How do you know? Do you not know what men normally wear as compared to what women normally wear? The following are examples:
  • Men don't normally wear panties.
  • Men don't normally wear bras.
  • Men don't normally wear dresses or skirts designed for women only (and women don't normally wear skirts designed for men only).
  • Women don't normally wear a 3-piece suit.
  • Women don't normally wear men's underwear.
Most of these garments were not worn during the time of Moses. I have to go to church now. :wave:
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Old 11-07-2004, 01:20 PM   #6
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inquisitive01,

First off, what is "Normal"? And how can we know?

The conclusion from your logic is that fashion should be static and not culturally determind. Otherwise if enough men being to wear bras and panties, then it becomes Biblically acceptable. Is this correct? God is very specific about what is clean and unclean to eat, but not so on the subject of clothing. Remeber there were no bras and panties then. Women wear men's clothing including underwear all the time and it is very fashionable.
(and few men wear three piece suits.) to hyperbole: And what gender are my goat leggings? Masculine of feminie?

:huh:
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Old 11-09-2004, 12:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeBuhrul
They did in biblical times... as they do today in the same areas... you're basing your position on an eurocentric bias


What kind of women's dresses did the men of Biblical times wear? Did they also wear women's evening gowns? Women's lingerie? Women's underwear? Women's panty hose? Women's wigs?

Anyway, I'll rephrase it. Men don't normally wear women's dresses.
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Old 11-09-2004, 12:58 AM   #8
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For those who think this is a silly issue, Religious Legalism meets Cross Dressing
Quote:
Without learning any personal facts about my situation nearly 80%, 42 of 54 clergy, labeled my cross-dressing as sinful and requiring repentance. I was stunned by the overwhelmingly negative and often violent nature of the responses. If that was the reaction when they acted "out of love" as many insisted they were doing, I shudder to think what it would be if they didn't love me. These extracts demonstrate the seriousness of the situation.

In each case I sent a follow-up email pointing out that only one Biblical verse addressed the issue, that commentators gave multiple interpretations of the meaning and that most concluded it wasn't about cross-dressing per se. Given that, I concluded that a blanket condemnation is not warranted, that each case needs to be viewed separately and that dialog is needed to understand the situation. In turn the clergy branded me as rebelling against God, failing to accept His Word and suffering from a serious relationship problem with God.
edited to add: I didn't realize how many Christian cross dressers there are, or what agony they go through:

Elaborate justification for why cross dressing is not in fact a sin
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Old 11-09-2004, 10:58 PM   #9
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So am I a sinner? Cool.

I am wearing:
* men's jeans. Because the ones cut for women seem to think my waist is around my ears, while these ones seem to fit quite nicely.
* a loose fit Tshirt, wearable by either sex.
* a pair of boots that isn't labelled as male or female, but are low and practical and plain, and lots of men wear this style (Blundstones, for the NZ/Aussie contingent)
* women's socks, purple
* women's underpants, bikini style

And when I get up and leave I will be adding a men's motorcycle jacket and a generic unisex helmet. I can't recall if my gloves are women's or generic.

(PS: yay for me - 100 posts now)
 
Old 11-09-2004, 11:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inquisitive01
Are you saying "man" skirt" = "woman skirt" (and do women wear "man skirts" as well?)?
I knew a guy who wore women's skirts all the time. On the other hand, he was a Buddhist, so he probably didn't care. And he was skinny.

I wore a woman's skirt as a cape in a melodrama. It worked well.
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