Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 05-09-2010, 09:01 PM

The only large number of eyewitnesses that the New Testament mentions are the over 500 eyewitnesses in Corinth, Greece. That is a lot of eyewitnesses. If they actually saw Jesus, wouldn't some first century A.D. Greek historians have mentioned that?

How could over 500 Corinthians have recognized Jesus?

spamandham · 05-09-2010, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

How could over 500 Corinthians have recognized Jesus?

Obviously they couldn't have. But just as importantly, if this legend had been written within the recent memory of this Jesus character, people would have known it wasn't true. A writer could best expect to get away with writing something like this if he is writing long after the purported event, when some legend about "the 500" had already been spread.

Toto · 05-09-2010, 11:13 PM

Short answer: No.

Doug Shaver · 05-10-2010, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

If they actually saw Jesus, wouldn't some first century A.D. Greek historians have mentioned that?

Not necessarily. There are several variables involved in such things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

How could over 500 Corinthians have recognized Jesus?

The same way they would have recognized anybody else -- if they had seen him on some previous occasion. But why are you asking? Nobody says he was seen by 500 Corinthians. The only thing Paul says is that he was seen by 500 people. He doesn't say anything about where they were from.

James Brown · 05-10-2010, 07:19 AM

Paul is telling the church members in Corinth that a risen Jesus was seen by 500 anonymous people, presumably somewhere around Galilee. This has nothing to do with 500 Corinthians.

Of course, the Corinthians were supposed to take Paul's word for it, as are anyone else reading the letter. How reliable Paul's word is, well, that's another story.

PhilosopherJay · 05-10-2010, 12:38 PM

Hi Johnny Skeptic,

You ask, "How could over 500 Corinthians have recognized Jesus?"

This is a good point. He might have been carrying his "Jesus:King of the Jews" placard.

Unfortunately, there is no historian who collaborates this statement. None of the 500 people ever collaborated it.

The statement seems utterly meaningless as evidence for anything. If Paul had said 5000 people or 50 people instead of 500 people, would that change the nature of the evidence? The number seems to be irrelevant without collaboration as Paul could have made up any number.

I have a one-eyed unicorn named "Fluffy" that was seen by over 5000 people when she returned from the dead. That is 10 times more people than saw Jesus according to Paul. If we accept Paul's statement as evidence, do we have to accept my statement as being 10 times better evidence?

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

The only large number of eyewitnesses that the New Testament mentions are the over 500 eyewitnesses in Corinth, Greece. That is a lot of eyewitnesses. If they actually saw Jesus, wouldn't some first century A.D. Greek historians have mentioned that?

How could over 500 Corinthians have recognized Jesus?

dogsgod · 05-10-2010, 03:26 PM

.

Paul is describing a revelation, as in visions of a risen Christ. A gathering of brothers, as in believers, saw the risen Christ all at once, probably like a mass hallucination sort of thing. The early epistles describe a spiritual risen Christ, one that was risen in a heavenly realm that made itself visible, not a bodily resurrection that walked the earth as in the gospels.

.

arnoldo · 05-10-2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

The only large number of eyewitnesses that the New Testament mentions are the over 500 eyewitnesses in Corinth, Greece. That is a lot of eyewitnesses. If they actually saw Jesus, wouldn't some first century A.D. Greek historians have mentioned that?

How could over 500 Corinthians have recognized Jesus?

Does 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 describe events which occurred in Corinth or Galilee?

Quote:

This is why Paul was able to tell the Corinthians (in his letter written 53-57AD) that there were still many living eyewitnesses who could confirm the Resurrection accounts:

1 Corinthians 15: 3-7

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep ; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles

Evidence for the Early Dating of the Gospel Eyewitness Accounts

aa5874 · 05-10-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogsgod

.

Paul is describing a revelation, as in visions of a risen Christ. A gathering of brothers, as in believers, saw the risen Christ all at once, probably like a mass hallucination sort of thing. The early epistles describe a spiritual risen Christ, one that was risen in a heavenly realm that made itself visible, not a bodily resurrection that walked the earth as in the gospels.

.

Your post is COMPLETELY in ERROR.

The Pauline writer wrote NOT ONE THING about a Christ that was ONLY risen in a heavenly realm.

The Pauline writers claimed JESUS was BETRAYED in the NIGHT after he had supped, was crucified, died and raised from the dead on the third day

The Pauline JESUS is no different to the JESUS of the NT Canon.

JESUS of the NT Canon was BETRAYED and brought before Pilate on EARTH.

JESUS of the NT Canon was crucified on Earth after he went to Jerusalem.

JESUS of the NT Canon was buried by JOSEPH of Arimathae in a TOMB on EARTH.
Philippians 2.5-8

Quote:

5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

John 1.1-14

Quote:

.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. .............14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth..

John Kesler · 05-10-2010, 06:38 PM

05-09-2010, 09:01 PM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Do any first century A.D. Greek historians mention the 500 eyewitnesses? The only large number of eyewitnesses that the New Testament mentions are the over 500 eyewitnesses in Corinth, Greece. That is a lot of eyewitnesses. If they actually saw Jesus, wouldn't some first century A.D. Greek historians have mentioned that? How could over 500 Corinthians have recognized Jesus?

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05-09-2010, 11:13 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Short answer: No.

05-10-2010, 07:19 AM	#5
James Brown Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Texas, U.S. Posts: 5,844	Paul is telling the church members in Corinth that a risen Jesus was seen by 500 anonymous people, presumably somewhere around Galilee. This has nothing to do with 500 Corinthians. Of course, the Corinthians were supposed to take Paul's word for it, as are anyone else reading the letter. How reliable Paul's word is, well, that's another story.

05-10-2010, 03:26 PM	#7
dogsgod Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: British Columbia Posts: 104	. Paul is describing a revelation, as in visions of a risen Christ. A gathering of brothers, as in believers, saw the risen Christ all at once, probably like a mass hallucination sort of thing. The early epistles describe a spiritual risen Christ, one that was risen in a heavenly realm that made itself visible, not a bodily resurrection that walked the earth as in the gospels. .

05-10-2010, 06:38 PM	#10
John Kesler Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 1,037	<delete>

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