Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Megusic · 03-20-2005, 05:59 PM

While hanging out with some friends today after a visit to the humane society, the subject of putting microchips in pets for identification arose. This lead to discussion of putting microchips in humans, when my friend announced that her mother told her that microchips were in the bible.

After a quick internet search, I found lots of freaky stuff regarding the "mark of the beast" in relevations, and lots of sites about people afraid of Big Brother.

I, unfortunately, do not yet have a strong knowledge base regarding the bible (maybe after grad school!). Can someone fill me in a little more, perhaps regarding history surrounding the passages regarding the beast, what it really might "mean" and the end times? I'd really appreciate it!

Megusic

Eldarion Lathria · 03-20-2005, 06:49 PM

Microchips are NOT in the bible. You've encountered another "end timer" who twists things to match her interpretation of that two thousand year old hallucination. The 'Mark of the Beast" was probably something like a tattoo.

Eldarion Lathria

Tubby Lardmore · 03-20-2005, 06:58 PM

Jack & Rexella Van Impe of Trinity Broadcasting have made a fuss over these things for years.

Toto · 03-20-2005, 09:24 PM

Rev 13

The Beast out of the Sea

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

. . .

The Beast out of the Earth

11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666

Rev 14

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.�? 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

These passages come up every time someone talks about implanting microchips in people. But they do not refer to microchips. There are Biblical wingnuts who use these passages to refuse social security numbers.

It is generally thought that the second beast, whose number is 666, was the Emperor Nero.

Diogenes the Cynic · 03-20-2005, 10:27 PM

The "Beast" was the Emperor Domitian who was widely believed at the time to have been Nero reborn. 666 is a numerical anagram for Nero.

The "mark of the beast" was the Roman currency with the Emperor's face on it. Jews and early Christians saw the coins as graven images and resented having to use them. Because Roman slaves were customarily branded on their hands and foreheads, that image was used in Revelation as a figurative way to claim that the coins symbolically "branded" them as slaves to the Roman Empire.

Megusic · 03-23-2005, 08:22 PM

Thank you Toto and Diogenes, for your thoughtful replies. Toto, nowhere else I looked online had those entire passges, so thanks!

To make it clear, I KNOW the bible doesn't talk about microchips. I was just wondering for a little more info on why people are so sure it does and like I said, the history of what was really being talked about in those passages.

Evil Sentient Duck · 03-24-2005, 04:43 AM

:thumbs:
Excellent reply Diogenes.
The endtime stuff has morphed in so many ways and is demonstrative of the creativity of the religious mind. How people have read so much into bible prophecy, such as this 666 stuff, is simply one of the most instructive case studies of the phenomena, IMO.

03-20-2005, 05:59 PM	#1
Megusic Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: OH Posts: 1,292	Microchips in the bible - the mark of the beast? While hanging out with some friends today after a visit to the humane society, the subject of putting microchips in pets for identification arose. This lead to discussion of putting microchips in humans, when my friend announced that her mother told her that microchips were in the bible. After a quick internet search, I found lots of freaky stuff regarding the "mark of the beast" in relevations, and lots of sites about people afraid of Big Brother. I, unfortunately, do not yet have a strong knowledge base regarding the bible (maybe after grad school!). Can someone fill me in a little more, perhaps regarding history surrounding the passages regarding the beast, what it really might "mean" and the end times? I'd really appreciate it! Megusic

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03-20-2005, 06:49 PM	#2
Eldarion Lathria Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlantis Posts: 2,449	Microchips are NOT in the bible. You've encountered another "end timer" who twists things to match her interpretation of that two thousand year old hallucination. The 'Mark of the Beast" was probably something like a tattoo. Eldarion Lathria

03-20-2005, 06:58 PM	#3
Tubby Lardmore Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,470	Jack & Rexella Van Impe of Trinity Broadcasting have made a fuss over these things for years.

03-20-2005, 09:24 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Rev 13 The Beast out of the Sea And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. . . . The Beast out of the Earth 11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666 Rev 14 9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.�? 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. These passages come up every time someone talks about implanting microchips in people. But they do not refer to microchips. There are Biblical wingnuts who use these passages to refuse social security numbers. It is generally thought that the second beast, whose number is 666, was the Emperor Nero.

03-20-2005, 10:27 PM	#5
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	The "Beast" was the Emperor Domitian who was widely believed at the time to have been Nero reborn. 666 is a numerical anagram for Nero. The "mark of the beast" was the Roman currency with the Emperor's face on it. Jews and early Christians saw the coins as graven images and resented having to use them. Because Roman slaves were customarily branded on their hands and foreheads, that image was used in Revelation as a figurative way to claim that the coins symbolically "branded" them as slaves to the Roman Empire.

03-23-2005, 08:22 PM	#6
Megusic Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: OH Posts: 1,292	Thank you Toto and Diogenes, for your thoughtful replies. Toto, nowhere else I looked online had those entire passges, so thanks! To make it clear, I KNOW the bible doesn't talk about microchips. I was just wondering for a little more info on why people are so sure it does and like I said, the history of what was really being talked about in those passages.

03-24-2005, 04:43 AM	#7
Evil Sentient Duck Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 85	:thumbs: Excellent reply Diogenes. The endtime stuff has morphed in so many ways and is demonstrative of the creativity of the religious mind. How people have read so much into bible prophecy, such as this 666 stuff, is simply one of the most instructive case studies of the phenomena, IMO.

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