Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 02-09-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

The Gentile slaves looked up to the Jews because it was probably known that the Jews (with the Pharisees- not the Saducees, leading the way) were fighting for the right of all the slaves in the Roman Empire to be free men. This is obviously something that bothered the Romans who could not tolerate such ideas spreading throughout the Empire if they wanted to continue to enjoy the economic value of slave labor.

Is this correct?

Has anyone proposed xianity as a deliberate invention to control slaves (and create better soldiers willing to die?)

Amaleq13 · 02-09-2008, 04:43 PM

Can you identify the source, please?

Clivedurdle · 02-10-2008, 03:34 AM

The current thread in BCH by mountainman on MJ!

Clivedurdle · 02-10-2008, 03:43 AM

For example

http://www.angelfire.com/wi/famtree/longwr1.html

Quote:

Simply stated, the Pharisees and Essenes were at variance with the Sadducees (and the Romans) on the issue of slavery.

As to the Pharisees, Josephus says; "...they follow the conduct of reason..." Meaning a) ethics, and b) that the leaders of the Pharisees were not 'religious', as in following after 'beliefs' over practicality, and c) "...they also pay respect to such (as) that are in years..." (i.e., they honored and respected their elders). And furthermore, "...they do not take away the freedom from men..."

Which indeed means that they were adverse to the idea of slavery. (Ref. Josephus, Whiston translation, page 376-377).

neilgodfrey · 02-10-2008, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

The current thread in BCH by mountainman on MJ!

Can you be more specific for a newbie here. MJ?

Clivedurdle · 02-10-2008, 03:50 AM

http://www.joelbainerman.com/articles/new_test.asp

Quote:

Why The Romans Created Christianity And The New Testament

Why did the Romans need something new to keep the salves enslaved?

Because the Pharisees urged and end to slavery, democratic forms of government, and doing away with the oligarchy. Since Rome had no interest in stopping slavery, it installed its puppet, Herod, and made him appear Jewish so that the Jews would give up and side with the Romans. It never worked. The Romans were in danger of losing its Imperial government to a "local government of the people" thus they needed to create a replacement ideology for the slaves to what the Pharisees were proposing.

In order to promote slavery and create a religion that would be considered attractive to the slaves, the Romans gave the slaves a custom-made religion (set of concepts and beliefs) which had simple, common traits: humility, meek shall inherit, a promise of afterlife of bliss in heaven after years of suffering on earth, good overruns evil in the end, etc. As the Romans were a sophisticated bunch they knew what the problem was and how to solve it: a new religion that all the Gentiles/slaves can be "attached to" so that they think they are free. With their people at the top they pulled the strings either way. The Romans were neither stupid nor gamblers.

A new religion was needed for the slaves so they will think they are more free and better off and of under more of their own free will- but it will be an illusion- never mind- but mission accomplished on behalf of the Romans. Christianity made the slaves even better patriots and to "render unto Caesar". It supported nationalism, loyalty, patriotism and commitment to serve Rome. The new religion was also useful to the Romans because it gave the members of the empire a common enemy in the Jews. A double whammy end result for Rome.

The new religion was a concoction of the best components taken from earlier and pre-existing religions and belief systems, along with some new concepts that would be "unique to Christians" to give these poor, destitute slaves some reason to smile when they get up in the morning. That is what the Romans gave them: a drug called Christianity, which enabled the slaves to better accept their lot in life.

Clivedurdle · 02-10-2008, 03:55 AM

I have posted the direct link above, but

Quote:

The Romans always feared another Spartacus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient...avery_03.shtml

Quote:

Probably over a quarter of the people living under ancient Roman rule were slaves - but they were kept so suppressed, there is little known about them.

Clivedurdle · 02-10-2008, 03:56 AM

Blessed are the meek.

Clivedurdle · 02-10-2008, 04:00 AM

Quote:

esus Heals on the Sabbath, Pharisees Complain (Mark 3:1-6)
From Austin Cline,
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Analysis and Commentary

1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. 2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. 3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. 6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

Compare: Matthew 12:9-14; Luke 6:6-11

Would the Pharisees have behaved as they are portrayed in the Gospels? A radical anti slavery group?

makerowner · 02-10-2008, 09:19 AM

I've never heard anything about the Pharisees being anti-slavery.

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02-09-2008, 04:43 PM	#2
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	Can you identify the source, please?

02-10-2008, 03:34 AM	#3
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	The current thread in BCH by mountainman on MJ!

02-10-2008, 03:56 AM	#8
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Blessed are the meek.

02-10-2008, 09:19 AM	#10
makerowner Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,962	I've never heard anything about the Pharisees being anti-slavery.

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