Chili

She did not get kicked out but was placed at the gate to guard the way to tree of life. The man was placed East of Eden from where Adam and Eve led him West and on towards the end of the world.

Chili

No, it means physical death but only to say that you will consciously know that you will die. Nobody said that in eternity we will not die because the second death will surely cause that to happen.

Roach Clips

Where does it say they were going to live for an eternity. What's this second death your talking about? Please clarify.

Also, if it means a physical death, than it's not talking about a spiritual death. Correct? Therefore, the spiritual death theory is still nothing more than Christian conjecture.

Chili

Man had free will until he ate from the tree of knowledge wherein he became divided in his mind between the tree of life and the tree of knowledge.

Chili

To say that "you will surely die" when you eat from the tree of knowledge implies that you will not die if you do not take and eat the fruit.

The second death comes later in the story but is contingent upon the formation of the ego consciousness in the tree of knowledge wherein we will consciously know that we will surely die.

Correct, the spiritual death theory is Christian conjecture.

LoungeHead

Next time read the rest of my post.

All decisions (free-will) require a value system in which to assess the value (good or bad) of a consequence. Adam and Eve did not have a value system prior to eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They could only get this from the tree. Thus they did not have free-will. And that is the fallacy of the Genesis story.

Chili

Decisions require thinking and without a tree of knowledge thinking is not possible and therefore man was omniscient and free before he ate from the tree of knowledge (please don't choke on that one).

Adam and Eve did not exist until the tree of knowledge had been engaged. Adam became known in the shadow of man by conjecture. This is made known in his shame complex that not existed in Gen.2:25.

Apples cannot be evil and so the opposite of good is bad instead of evil.

Chili

If you like it to read it that way that will be good for you, but I hold that on the day that your eyes are opened you will die is contingent on the formation of the ego awareness that is later identified in the shame complex and there first called Adam with "Adam where are you." Of this dual existence Adam is temporal and man remains eternal. Adam will die the first death and Man will die the second death.

It was not a threat but a statement of fact . . . unless you are afraid of death.

LoungeHead

You're implying morality is a prerequisite of knowledge, when consciousness is the prerequisite. Adam and Eve were already aware of the world, much like animals are conscious and aware of the world around them, they didn't necessarily have omniscience. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil gave humans moral understanding, and self-reflexive consciousness which decision making requires. They could reflect on their awareness of the world or conscious experience and make moral decisions from self reflexive consciousness.
Wrong. Their moral conscience did not exist. It's the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, not the Tree of Knowledge per se.
How do you know it was an apple? There is no indication of fruit-family in Genesis.

Chili

Morality has nothing to do with it. The woman saw that the TOK was good for gaining food, wisdom and beauty and therefore bad is opposite to good. Evil has no part in it and the fig leave is added to show conscious awareness to identify the second nature of man. This was identified with "who told you that you were naked" for which two identities are needed. The fallen nature was called Adam and he took the serpent to be his wife and called here Eve while the woman remained in the Tree of Life (which would be the subconscious mind if the the TOK is the conscious mind).

The Tree of knowledge gave man a human condition wherein he had a self reflexive consciousness, yes, but that is what gave man a forked mind and a dual identity. One wherein he was God and the other wherein he was 'like god' and could evaluate the world around him for the purpose of gaining wisdom food and beauty. Apples in the subconscious mind? Rocks maybe but not apples.