Clivedurdle

Who started the idea that a daughter library of a library originally set up by someone with experience of the Athens library and probably with an international remit did not contain texts?

And what do these later references to lost texts by people who ran the place show? Oh she had her own works behind her desk and the rest of the place was a temple?

I know it is best to avoid implying stuff but at what point does it become ridiculously post modern? There also seems to be an assumption that temples and libraries were separate places.

Clivedurdle

Bury has a fascinating note.

the_cave

Well, let's say it's symbolic, then. I mean, Gladiator was a great film, even though historically it's ridiculous.

From the historical record it sounds as though a) Christians did not burn the Library of Alexandria, b) they did destroy the Serapeum, c) they also plundered other temple libraries to some degree, but d) there were still books remaining (where?) by the time of the Muslim conquest. (Possible of course that those were just the books that were accumulated during the two centuries in-between Bishop Theophilus and the Muslim conquest.) However, e) it's unclear whether any of this has to do with Hypatia. But see above note re: Gladiator.

Clivedurdle

Well I have just found reference to libraries - allegedly bigger than Alexandria - in Babylon, India and China. Arab traders and users of the Silk Route had plenty of choice.

the_cave

I meant where in Alexandria But Bernard Lewis' explanation of the Muslim legend seems plausible, so it is quite possible that the remains of the library (about 10% of the original holdings) were cleaned out by the Christians at the end of the 4th century.

However, having said that, there is no direct evidence that Aurelian in fact destroyed the replacement library (created using the Pergamon collection) when he sacked Alexandria, so it may have still been much larger than the Serapeum holdings.

(Stephen Carlson has also very recently blogged, on Hypotyposeis, that a tsunami hit Alexandria in 365, and wonders if it damaged the remaining holdings, however large they were.)

Roger Pearse

"unde quamlibet hodieque in templis extent, quae et nos uidimus, armaria librorum, quibus direptis exinanita ea a nostris hominibus nostris temporibus memorent ---- quod quidem uerum est ----, tamen honestius creditur alios libros fuisse quaesitos, qui pristinas studiorum curas aemularentur, quam aliam ullam tunc fuisse bibliothecam, quae extra quadringenta milia librorum fuisse ac per hoc euasisse credatur."

My first effort:

"but of which, cabinets (armaria) of books are extant today also in the temples, which we ourselves also have seen; after these (books) had been destroyed, the [cabinets] remain in our time, emptied by our people (?) -- because this is true --, however it is believed more honestly that other books were sought out, which were emulating the first efforts of studies, than at that time there was any other library which contained more than 400,000 books; and it was believed that it escaped thus."

I haven't quite got that right, tho. Someone else want another go? (I used QuickLatin to help me, of course)

The lack of an online translation of Orosius pains me intermittently. No out of copyright version exists; there are translations by Columbia University Press from the 1930's (which copyright the university renewed) and one in the Fathers of the Church series.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

andrewcriddle

Do we have ancient evidence that Hypatia was known for her beauty (as distinct from arguably more important things such as virtue learning and wisdom) ?

Since at the time of her conflict with Cyril and supporters she was well into her 40s, she was probably looking quite aged at the time.

Andrew Criddle

mountainman

Tax-exempt "bishop" Cyril was a mafia boss. He is famous for his definitive treatments of "Christology" and for his censorship of Julian's invectives against the integrity and business of the christian church. His uncle Theophilus was in fact worse. From Totos post above, Gibbon writes:

Best wishes,



Pete Brown

andrewcriddle

The problem is that the sayings attributed to Hypatia seem based on this work http://www.polyamory.org/~howard/Hyp...bard_1928.html which appears to be a piece of historical fiction.

Andrew Criddle

andrewcriddle

It may have been less straightforward than that.

The Byzantine Empire was gradually developing laws restricting the ownership of Christian slaves by non-Christians. These laws were particularly intended to restrict the ownership of Christians by Jews but IIUC could have been interpreted more widely.

As a prominent controversial pagan, Hypatia might have found herself in difficulties if her slave converted to Christianity and then claimed that his ability to live a Christian live was jeopardised by being owned by a pagan.

Hypatia might have been forced to manumit the slave concerned or at least sell him to Christian masters.

Andrew Criddle