Toto

Some other cult that had the same mythology as Christianity, but that has disappeared without a trace?

I think you've reached the end of the argument. Have a nice day.

spin

mountainman

Thanks for the URL again.

From that site:

On the same page, with the caption ......

Fresco of Abraham from the 3rd-century synagogue, now at the National Museum of Damascus, is this image ....



The suspected "Jesus" in the "Healing of the Paralytic" looks superficially like this Abraham. A picture of Jesus? Sorry I dont buy it.

I'd like someone to tell me why it could not be the local public hospital oversighted by a therapeutae/physician.

mountainman

The hypothesis that Christianity heavily borrowed the mythology from a milieu of mythological sources in the ancient world has been pursued by many. As such it is like dealing with Christianity as a branch of tree which has pagan roots. That is why those who claim that the case that the Dura house was in fact a "BRANCH" of an early christian "house-church" is proven by the evidence , must explain the presence in the evidence of the Hermetic Criophorus ("Good Shepherd").




From "Ante Pacem" .....

mountainman

As usual Comrade Spin continues to completely misrepresent the above arguments while at the same time suggesting they are to be ignored.

The argument is not that the art work represented by the "Good Shepherd" and the other frescos is "planted", but that Yale's ARTISTIC JUDGEMENT that the "Good Shepherd" and the other motifs are necessarily "christian" is very wanting. There is a vast difference between these two arguments, as any reader can immediately see. Why spin blatantly misrepresents the opposition argument and logic is anyone's guess.

This singular exemplar of a "Christian" archaeological find, consistent of murals, was shipped from Dura to Yale almost one hundred years ago, the "spoils" of a joint archaeological dig. At Yale, in the intervening time period a certain amount of restoration work has been undertaken on the murals, and scholars have invented captions for the images, such as "The Healing of the Paralytic".

These captions reveal that the scholars who authored them have somehow managed to convince themselves that they were looking at murals and pictures and motifs which had to have been painted by someone who had read the new testament, etc. and was inspired by the text in the NT bible. I dont buy this at all. The "Good Shepherd" was around 1000 BCE for Christ's sake.

I dont mind spin canvassing the forum to have me ignored, that is his right and I respect it. However I would think that it would be fair if someone were to point out that he continues in falsely representing the argument and logic by which I am presently convinced that the Dura Europos archaeological material does not necessarily represent unambiguous evidence of an "early christian house church".

At the end of the Dura day the "Yale Divinity College archaeological evidence" is in the "Yale Divinity College Art Appreciation". And I am quite skeptical of the Yale Divinity College interpretation -- particularly the NT related captions -- invented for the restored Yale Divinity College specimen motifs.

Toto

I think that you have only recently clarified your position to be that the murals were not really Christian. avi is still contending that they could have been forged.

It is easy to see why spin could be confused. Your earlier charges on this issue did not clarify the basis of your dismissal of this evidence, and he has had you on ignore recently. See this thread.

mountainman

This is not the case. The artwork has always been the only "evidence" tendered at Dura, other than the purported diatesseron fragment found elsewhere in the city.


In addition to the argument over the interpretation and captioning of the mural art works, Avi may still have a point in this contention, since it is difficult to understand how the walls of the "suspected house-church" could have been removed intact with their murals. And it is difficult to gauge just how much restoration work was undertaken at Yale with PAINT.

Where has this room come from? Here apparently .....

The caption reads ....

Ruins of the house-church at Dura Europos, the oldest church ever discovered (3rd century). The well-preserved interior has been dismantled and reconstructed at the Yale University museum

Spin appears to have the "Good Shepherd" at Dura on ignore.
I am not denying that Michael Rostovsteff found a "Good Shepherd".
But that they found a "New Testament Healing of the Paralytic" is debatable.

spin

What exactly am I supposed to be confused about? About the existence of frescos that show Jesus walking on water, that show the raising of Lazarus? that show the Samaritan woman at the well? that show the women going to Jesus' tomb? or the existence of a christian inscription at the site? About the fact that christianity was demonstrated to have existed before the fall of Dura in 257 CE? The good shepherd motif in the context of those frescos is a matter of "if it walks like a duck...."

Toto, I think you're wasting your breath with our man from Fall's Creek. Too bad you can't take the ignore list option. That's one reason I couldn't hack it as a moderator.


spin

Toto

Pete has accused you of misrepresenting his current position. He doesn't think that the murals were forged, but he does think that they are not truly Christian. He called for moderator intervention to uphold his honor.

spin

Thanks for the clarification, Toto.

Any suggestions I may have made intimating that mountainman claimed the murals in the baptistry at Dura were forged are not accurate reflections of mountainman's views.

Any suggestions that mountainman may have made claiming the murals in the baptistry at Dura were not in their totality illustrative of early christianity are not accurate reflections of the evidence.


spin