funinspace

I am curious, do you think the writings that encompass the purported words of Jesus ever contained what might be called hyperbole, just to make a point; even if it is obscure at times? Or do you perhaps think the intent of Matt 18:9 was to have many one eyed, one armed, Christians?

How does Luke's 14:26 relate to Matt 10:37? What of Paul's writings like Eph 6:1 and 1 Tim 5:4-8 regarding ones family?

What of his other (purported) statements relative to parents/family, such as the below? Do we just take this character to be fully schizophrenic, and conclude that all the writings are simply incoherent?
John 8:49 Jesus answered, "I am not possessed; I honor my Father, but you dishonor me.
Mark 7:9 He went on to say, "How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition! 10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Whoever curses father or mother shall die. 11 Yet you say, 'If a person says to father or mother, "Any support you might have had from me is qorban"' (meaning, dedicated to God), 12 you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother. 13 You nullify the word of God in favor of your tradition that you have handed on. And you do many such things."

I will say that Luke 9:59-62 is troubling, in that one would think a god could figure out that mere humans need to bury their loved ones. Matt 10:34-37 is also kind of weird, but then I don't really consider Christianity a religion of peace and haromony. The NT has many real issues, and it seems to me that this borders on...well...nitpicking.

PS None of this absolves IBIH from needing to back up his vacuous claim that Jesus was speaking in Hebrew in the verses in Luke.

IBelieveInHymn

Because modern copyists are not going to change the words in the bible, so uneducated people can understand it better. When I read 'we must hate our parents', I don't see literal emotional hatred. I see "we must love God more than our parents".


Why would he do that? Christians outweigh atheists by a few billion people. We understand what it means.. what's your excuse? Because I think atheists really want the bible to say 'HATE YOUR PARENTS!' because they think it proves Jesus was insane, and full of hate.

bacht

Uh huh. And how exactly do we harmonize the Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount with the avenger Christ in Revelation, dishing out mayhem to unbelievers? Or what about the anti-Semitic remarks in the gospels, is this from a Jew who loves his own people, or a sock-puppet spouting gentile racism?

show_no_mercy

Considering that the Jesus stories have multiple authors with multiple agendas, yes.

credoconsolans

Because a billion people can't possibly be wrong...

spin

The rule I gave is fairly straightforward, my thoughts about possible hyperbole notwithstanding.

Is there any rule that requires a tradition to be coherent?

But is there anything wrong with a little healthy nitpicking?

Do you expect to see either support for the notion or a recantation?


spin

graymouser

I would bet that, if you gave a survey with the following options:

a. "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple." (Luke 14:26 NASB)
b. "From each shall be taken according to his means, and to each shall be given according to his needs." (adapted from Communist Manifesto)

And asked Christians which one Jesus said, you would either get a majority or a strong minority for answer b. The large majority of Christians are Biblically illiterate, and I would wager don't know that Jesus said this. Of those who do know, in my experience they either gloss over it (as they do with much of the hateful and contradictory material in the NT), preferring the shinier and happier stuff, or they learn an apologetic to dance around the topic like you've demonstrated here.

Elijah

There is no need for you to reinterpret it as less than hate. He's asking you to sacrifice your life. That's not something someone does if they care for the feelings of their family and friends. The point isn't that you need to hate your parents, just that what he is asking his followers to do is going to cause pain to their loved ones and that should considered before trying to take up your cross.

IBelieveInHymn

If you did that survery, and these "supposed" Christians didn't know which one Jesus said, Then I would think they need to brush up on their Biblical studies. However, that doesn't mean Jesus won't save them. Just because people are illierate to the bible, maybe God will accept them? I don't know that for sure, do you?

I believe the Bible does say mentally challenged people are automatically rewared a crown of life.

funinspace

And would it pain you to share your thoughts on possible hyperbole?

Nope, but if there is no coherency what so ever, then is there even a point to putting more than a passing thought into the topic? Maybe one should start deconstructing Marvel comics next...

No, but balance is also often a good thing...

Sadly, no I don't expect to see either, the dodge pattern has already become blatent...