Freethought & Rationalism Archive

gstafleu · 10-15-2006, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnosis92

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061015/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

"BAGHDAD, Iraq - Suspected Shiite militiamen killed at least 46 Sunni Arabs in a weekend rampage of revenge killing in a city north of Baghdad, an Interior Ministry official said Sunday, raising the toll in the latest sectarian bloodletting there to 63."

wtf?

I was not originally against the War in Iraq b/c I figure
1- Iraq will be a secular democracy
2- Iraq will be at peace, with human rights secured
3- cheap oil is a big plus.

I didn't buy into the lie that Bush's reasons to get us involved in war had anything to do with terrorism.

Obviously these original plans didn't pan out, and there is a virtual civil war between Sunnis and Shiites -- why are they murdering one another in Iraq?

Does the Islamic religion sanction violence between Sunnis and Shiites?

Why did the catholics and protestants kill each other in Northern Ireland. Why did the Hutis kill the Tutsis in Rwanda? Why do people in the Balkans not get along? Why...

Quote:

I was not originally against the War in Iraq b/c I figure
1- Iraq will be a secular democracy

One admires the degree of synchronous optimism and historical ignorance you
have achieved.

Quote:

2- Iraq will be at peace, with human rights secured

See above

Quote:

3- cheap oil is a big plus.

Plus enough to justify killing the owners and stealing it?

Not sure if this is an ASCH discussion though, seems more a mixture of politics and ethics.

Gerard Stafleu

gnosis92 · 10-15-2006, 11:04 AM

I didn't think it was reasonably foreseeable that Sunnis and Shiites would be killing one another to the extent the are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstafleu

Why did the catholics and protestants kill each other in Northern Ireland. Why did the Hutis kill the Tutsis in Rwanda? Why do people in the Balkans not get along? Why...

One admires the degree of synchronous optimism and historical ignorance you
have achieved.

See above

Plus enough to justify killing the owners and stealing it?

Not sure if this is an ASCH discussion though, seems more a mixture of politics and ethics.

Gerard Stafleu

WWJD4aKlondikeBar · 10-15-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnosis92

So why not just partition Iraq?

Cuz you know that's working great over in Israel.

gstafleu · 10-15-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnosis92

I didn't think it was reasonably foreseeable that Sunnis and Shiites would be killing one another to the extent the are.

In many commentaries I have read since day 1, violence between the three groups (Kurds, Sunnis, Shiites) was always seen as a good possibility, although not inevitable. The reasons given were not so much religious as political/economical: the location of oil (non on Sunni grounds) and a shift in political power (from minority Sunni to majority Shiite). The latter is problematic on simple ingroup-outgroup considerations that are independent of religion as such. So a lot of people foresaw the current developments, if not as inevitable then as distinctly possible with more than a vanishing probability. So yes, it was definitely reasonably foreseeable and was forseen to boot.

Gerard Stafleu

megalo · 10-26-2006, 03:21 AM

Are they? Strange, most people I've met would say that the Americans are actually the ones fueling religious feud in Iraq. But I know how brainwashed Arabs can be.
Islam started without all these sects so I assume it doesn't include texts regarding specific backgrounds, but it clearly prohibits killing muslims one another.. if they were indeed killing one another in Iraq. Recent statistics showed that 650,000 people where killed. Around 30% alone were due to American airstrikes, and 50% can't be attributed to any group. They could be the militias, coalition forces, terrorists, different factions in the police, and downright criminals and choatics. There is simply no powerful centralized government in Iraq, that's the reason.

Roger Pearse · 10-26-2006, 05:48 AM

Ask Hussein. (Mohammed's grandson).

All the best,

Roger Pearse

EarlOfLade · 10-26-2006, 06:16 AM

It's very simple why they kill each other.
It's because "My Allah is better than your Allah!"

Religion, the root of all evil!

spin · 10-26-2006, 06:23 AM

This thread is a political thread. WTF is it still here?

Toto · 10-26-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

This thread is a political thread. WTF is it still here?

Because someone started analysing the hadiths on the question, which was part of the original question.

spin · 10-26-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Because someone started analysing the hadiths on the question, which was part of the original question.

That was fine from post two to post six. After that, the thread got waylaid.

spin

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10-26-2006, 03:21 AM	#5
megalo Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kuwait Posts: 14	Are they? Strange, most people I've met would say that the Americans are actually the ones fueling religious feud in Iraq. But I know how brainwashed Arabs can be. Islam started without all these sects so I assume it doesn't include texts regarding specific backgrounds, but it clearly prohibits killing muslims one another.. if they were indeed killing one another in Iraq. Recent statistics showed that 650,000 people where killed. Around 30% alone were due to American airstrikes, and 50% can't be attributed to any group. They could be the militias, coalition forces, terrorists, different factions in the police, and downright criminals and choatics. There is simply no powerful centralized government in Iraq, that's the reason.

10-26-2006, 05:48 AM	#6
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	Ask Hussein. (Mohammed's grandson). All the best, Roger Pearse

10-26-2006, 06:16 AM	#7
EarlOfLade Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 5,310	It's very simple why they kill each other. It's because "My Allah is better than your Allah!" Religion, the root of all evil!

10-26-2006, 06:23 AM	#8
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	This thread is a political thread. WTF is it still here?

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