spin

Uh-huh. This is nothing strange: Japan gets much of its raw materials elsewhere. Without the materials what would happen to Japan??

("PalseTyrus" is just an OCR problem.)

Perhaps you've missed out on some of the material in this thread. A few Greek sources refer to Ushu as Palai-Tyre. The Greek period is after the time of Nebuchadnezzar. You can retroject the Greek name if you like but it won't change the fact that at the time of Ashurbanipal there were two clearly different entities Tyre and Ushu. :wave:


spin

sugarhitman

Not according to Ezekiel or the Bible, nor according to not a few historians. Menader after all was qouting directly from the Tyrian archives. :wave:

spin

Last I heard, Ezekiel was in the bible. And it is the material in Ezekiel we are looking at in order to understand its value. Ezekiel talks about Tyre, so we must assume he is referring to Tyre, not Ushu, when he says "Tyre". As Ezekiel is not Greek he would use the Hebrew word for Ushu, ie Hosah (Josh 19:29).

Besides Menander, who are these "not a few"?



spin

makerowner

You seem to be misreading your own source: "Then Tyre, Sidon, and Arke, as well as old TYRE, and many other cities that had handed themselves over to the king of the Assyrians revolted..." (emphasis added). This source distinguishes between Tyre and "Old Tyre", so it actually works against your point, rather than supporting it.

arnoldo

Why didn't the Jews *edit* the book of Ezekiel to include Alexander?

Johnny Skeptic

Obviously, because too many people were already aware of the previous version, but you did not answer my question. Please do so. You said that fulfilled prophecy strengthened the faith of the Jews. If Ezekiel had mentioned Alexander, that would have strengthened the faith of Jews and Christians much more.

You probably have the mistaken impression that I believe that all Bible prophecies are deliberate lies. That is not what I believe. In my opinion, innocent but inaccurate revelations are far more common in religous books than deliberate lies.

sugarhitman

Old Tyre, Tyre, USHU, UZU, USU, and whatever other name this city was called, Ezekiel did not seperate it from the island city. Clearly Ezekiel has Nebby attacking the mainland city because again you dont attack an island surrounded by water with no land outside its walls with horses whose "dust shall cover you" (i dont see how seeing the island was surrounded by water) and other land based weapons. It use to be argued that a city was not even on the coast but a line of suburbs or a village. But the fact is there was a city on the coast which was intimately connected with the island that the island could not survive without it. And it was peopled by the same people who lived on the island:

"Ushu or Uzu, the ancient name of the mainland city....during most periods, the majority of the population must have lived on the mainland, while the island was an administration and religious center. As an administration center, it would have contained the palaces of the ruler and probaly stations for the army as well. And as a religious center, it had temples serving the city and the region." (Bikia Pierre, The Land of Tyre, found in ch.2 of Martha Joukowsky's 'The heritage of Tyre' 1992 pp-13-15)

"Besides the city itself, well protected by its location on an island, the kingdom of Tyre included a strip of mainland, whose center was the town of Ushu" (Katzenstein, H.J. The History of Tyre)

"A wall at Karnak lists the cities Sethos I (or Seti I, Ramesses's II father) conquered, among them Tyre and Ushu. Ushu appears as if it were part of the Tyrian kingdom." (Badre Leila 'Canaanite Tyre)----WIKIPEDIA


Ushu and Tyre are the same kingdom. Ezekiel predicted that Nebby, and the other nations would diminish Tyre by destroying the mainland city. The island as God said would be destroyed BY THE SEA. :wave:

spin

So then you agree, if you accept your own quotes, that the island was the city and center of Tyre, while Ushu was a coastal town it sometimes held, sometimes used, and sometimes did without. :wave:


spin

sugarhitman

After Hiram the island may have become more important. But what I am showing is that Ushu, Old Tyre, was included in the Tyrian kingdom. I also believe that the mainland city was first, because there is no way all those inhabitants could have live on such a small piece of land that was only enlarged during Hiram with no water and no place to bury the dead and may I add no where to grow food. As the prophecy clearly shows it was the mainland city that ws to be destroyed by the nations while God clearly shows the judgement of the island is to buried deep under the sea...two judgements for two locations one has already occured....the next will surely happen remeber the earthquake that caused the island to be abandoned?.....that was a warning of what is to come :wave:

Johnny Skeptic

Message to sugarhitman: Why didn't Ezekiel mention Alexander?