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09-15-2007, 01:39 AM | #21 | |||||
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09-15-2007, 02:01 AM | #22 | ||
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Moreover, we do not know all the whereabouts of this fire in Stockholm. Was it an accident ? was it a criminal fire ? The description of the fire by Swedendenborg (who was not here) is valueless, at best a second hand description, enhanced post facto. The witness was not Kant, but William Costel. The date was not 1756, but 1759. And, if the prediction by Swedenborg had been mistaken, nobody would have said anything about this blunder of Swedenborg. |
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09-15-2007, 04:18 AM | #23 | |
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09-15-2007, 04:33 AM | #24 | ||||
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09-15-2007, 05:52 AM | #25 | |
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09-15-2007, 06:59 AM | #26 |
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Here is what a fundie prophecy buff has to say regarding this matter:
http://godsbreath.wordpress.com/2007...did-come-true/ To historically show that these predictions existed before 70 AD, look first to where these predictions are found in good detail in the Gospel of Luke. The Gospel of Luke was written before Luke’s other work “Acts of the Apostles”, and this is key in knowing if Jesus’ predictions as found in Luke 19:41-44 and 21:5-24 are real. The Gospel of Luke is presented in the first sentence of Acts, which presents a review of Luke’s Gospel (Acts 1:1-4). Acts is significant because it concludes with the Apostle Paul under house arrest (Acts 28:30-31) in about 60-62 AD before his death in AD 67. If Acts was written after 70, then why did Luke not reveal what happened to Paul in trial and even his death? If Acts ended with Paul’s death and even Peter’s, then the dating of Acts could have been after the desolation of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple, but this is not the case though James’ and Stephen’s deaths are recorded. It is very evident that Acts was written before AD 70. Acts ends with mentioning Paul’s house arrest lasting two years implying knowledge of Paul’s release and nothing further (28:30). Luke does not tell what happened in Paul’s trials in Rome when the rest of the book has covered Paul’s trials in detail. The fact that Acts ends without resolution concerning Paul’s trials and his death is very important in showing that Acts was written before the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, so the predictions in Luke’s earlier writing of the Gospel of Luke would have been before the event. Along with all of this, Acts presents an optimistic view of the government of Rome, which would have changed by the Neronian persecution to come in AD 64-65. This affirms the existence of these predictions prior to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Knowing Luke’s Gospel was written before the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, see how with what detail Jesus predicted these events. Look at two passages of Jesus’ predictions of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in Luke 19:41-44 and in 21:5-24. In Luke 19:41-44, Jesus predicted: *The enemies of Jerusalem would build an embankment around it (19:43). *Jerusalem would be closed in on every side (19:43). *Jerusalem would be leveled to the ground with not one stone upon another (19:44). In Luke 21:5-24, Jesus predicted: *The buildings of the temple would be thrown down (21:5-6). *Hearing of wars along with nation actually rising against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9-10). *There would be earthquakes, famines, and pestilences. (21:11) *Apostles and disciples would be around at the beginning of the signs of these things, and they would even be persecuted in the persecution to come before these signs (21:12). *Some of these disciples would die before these signs came to pass (21:16). *Some of the disciples would see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then desolation is near (21:20). *Many would die by sword or be taken captive unto all the nations (21:24). *Jerusalem would be trampled under foot by Gentiles (21:24). These events are confirmed mostly in Roman record written by the Jewish historian, Josephus, who was at the capture of Jerusalem. The predictions were fulfilled that the enemies of Jerusalem would build an embankment around it (19:43), and Jerusalem would be closed in on every side (19:43). The Jewish historian, Josephus, confirmed this truth in his history (War of the Jews, VI, 8.1). The Temple being thrown down and made desolate is confirmed by Josephus too (War of the Jews, VI, 4:7, 5:1-2, 6:1; VII, 1:1). Jerusalem would be leveled to the ground with not one stone upon another (19:44). The buildings of the temple would be thrown down (21:5-6). This was the greatest desolation that the world had known until this time (War of the Jews, VI 10:1, VII). Josephus presents clearly that the only parts of the city left were three towers while the rest of the city and the Temple were completely leveled. |
09-15-2007, 08:21 AM | #27 | ||
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Doesn't Origen tells us that Josephus, Christians, and Jews attributed the fall of Jerusalem to the murder of James? That he was apparently wrong about Josephus does not entail that he was wrong about the general views of Christians and Jews regarding the destruction. How about "Supernatural events are, by definition, so unlikely that only when substantial evidence exists suggesting such a thing actually did happen, it is entirely rational to disregard it as a viable possibility." |
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09-15-2007, 08:29 AM | #28 | |
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09-15-2007, 08:55 AM | #29 | ||
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I remember 1977 like it was yesterday. Subjectively it *was* yesterday. I just don't quite know what happened. One day I turned around and I was 40. Apparently everyone has that experience. "And then one day you find/Ten years have got behind you/No-one told you when to run/You missed the starting gun". Apparently the next 30 go even more quickly. Sorry but I'm feeling old today. Quote:
All the best, Roger Pearse |
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09-15-2007, 09:14 AM | #30 | ||
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I know from past experience that it is beneath your scholarly dignity to reply to my posts. You sit upon your lofty scholarly perch looking down scornfully on skeptic laymen like me. You conveniently never choose to discuss philosophical issues because of the difficulties that they present to conservative and moderate Christians. If a twelve year old asked you why you are a Christian, would you ask him to read some scholarly books? If you wouldn't, I would sure like to know what your approach would be. The quote above was not written by Roger Pearse but by me. Amaleq13, BC&H moderator |
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