Doctor X

We should both be in bed. . . .

I am a little confus'd with your post, BoneyardBill:

The J story--yet another woman henpecking a man into perdition--demonstrates why "we" are mortal and subject to the benefits and drawbacks of mortality. It does not need a savior any more than Gilgamesh needs a savior when he is shown--by an early "Noah" character--why he, too, is mortal and must remain mortal.

"Need for savior" is later mythmaking read on top of this myth.

. . . or am I missing your point?

--J.D.

Ardon28

Jesus was trying to get His message to the people. And that message was to accept Him as their personal saviour. He spoke to people using the accepted beliefs of the period. Otherwise they probably wouldn't have given Him the time of day.

I have often used the OP as a tool to reject the Bible. I still can't fathom much of the OT. Is it possible that Jesus, as the Son of God, only knew what God revealed to Him? And God revealed much, the way of Grace.

If Jesus was God, then I doubt that He would lie to the people. Using stories from the OT would be a way of communicating. Not lying, but as allegories.

And what we read in the NT is not a direct transcription of the actual words of Jesus. Who knows how He actually worded His message.

I believe it is possible to believe the MESSAGE of Jesus without getting bogged down by details that do not make sense to 21st century people.

gregor

Ardon

I'd be interested in having you point out passages in Mark where Jesus told the general public that he was their personal savior and they should believe him to be so, in order for them to receive some worldly or other-worldly reward.

Ardon28

Gregor,

How about Mark 8:34-38

Then he called his disciples and the crowds to come over and listen. "If any of you wants to be my follower," he told them, "You must put aside your selfish ambition, shoulder your cross, and follow me. If you try to keep your life for yourself, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake and for the sake of the Good News, you will find true life. And how do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul in the process? Is anything worth more than your soul? If a person is ashamed of me and my message in these adulterous times and sinful days, I, the Son of Man, will be ashamed of that person when I return in the glory of my Father with the holy angels."

Doctor X

Ardon28:

Welcome to the forums . . . mind the hounds. . . .

I am sure you would be able to explain why Junior in Mk intentionally hides his message to prevent people from being "saved?"

--J.D.