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Old 02-04-2006, 05:21 PM   #1
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Default Early Christianity [300 BCE-325 CE] Thread

talk it out!

---------------------Gnosticism

Quote:
Layton notes 'the lack of uniformity in ancient Christian scripture in the early period is very striking, and it points to the substantial diversity within the Chrisitian religion' (Layton, The Gnostic Scriptures, xviii).
Quote:
It was only with the advent of emperor Constantine (272–337) and the Council of Nicaea in 325, which cemented the growing acceptance of Christianity as the officially sanctioned religion of the Roman Empire, that a structurally coherent and crystallized form of orthdox Christianity began to emerge. The Nag Hammadi library offers an intriguing source of texts whose intended exclusion as much drived the formation of an orthodox scriptural canon as did the desire to include certain other texts, now well known. 'Orthodox Christian doctrine of the ancient world - and thus of the modern church - was partly conceived of as being what gnostic scripture was not' (Layton, The Gnostic Scriptures; emphasis writer's own).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic

---------------------Origins of the Bible

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Most scholars believe that all of the New Testament was originally composed in Greek. The three main textual traditions are sometimes called the Western text-type, the Alexandrian text-type, and Byzantine text-type. Together they compose the majority of New Testament manuscripts.
not Jewish...

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A few scholars believe in Aramaic primacy — that parts of the Greek New Testament are actually a translation of an Aramaic original...
still not Jewish...

Quote:
With the exception of a couple of fragments (found among the Dead Sea scrolls, discussed below), no Bible texts that we currently have predate about 200 BCE.
that throws the Jewish Disciples out the window...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible

Quote:
According to carbon dating and textual analysis, the documents were written at various times between the middle of the 2nd century BC and the 1st century AD. At least one document has a carbon date range of 21 BC–AD 61. The Nash Papyrus from Egypt, containing a copy of the Ten Commandments, is the only other Hebrew document of comparable antiquity. Similar written materials have been recovered from nearby sites, including the fortress of Masada. While some of the scrolls were written on papyrus, a good portion were written on a brownish animal skin (hide) that appears to be gevil.
The fragments span at least 800 texts that represent many diverse viewpoints, ranging from the beliefs of the Essenes to those of other sects. About 30% are fragments from the Hebrew Bible, from all the books except the Book of Esther. About 25% are traditional Israelite religious texts that are not in the canonical Hebrew Bible, such as the Book of Enoch, the Book of Jubilees, and the Testament of Levi. Another 30% contain Biblical commentaries or other texts such as the "Manual of Discipline" (1QS, also known as "Discipline Scroll" or "Community Rule") and the Rule of War (1QM, also known as "War Scroll") related to the beliefs, regulations, and membership requirements of a small Jewish sect, which many researchers believe lived in the Qumran area. The rest (about 15%) of the fragments are yet unidentified. Most of them are written in Hebrew, but some are also written in Aramaic and a few in Greek.
Important texts include the Isaiah Scroll (discovered in 1947), a Commentary on the Habakkuk (1947); the Community Rule (1QS), which gives much information on the structure and theology of the sect; and the earliest version of the Damascus Document. The so-called Copper Scroll (1952), which lists hidden caches of gold, scrolls, and weapons, is probably the most notorious.
A jewish sect...

not a christian one...

--------------Mithras

Quote:
“The resemblances between the two churches were so striking as to impress even the minds of antiquity� (Cumont, 193). In common with some early Christian apologists, such as Origen, Mithraism held that all souls pre-existed in the ethereal regions with God, and inhabited a body upon birth. Similar to Pythagorean, Essene, and Pauline theology, life then becomes the great struggle between good and evil, spirit and body, ending in judgment, with the elect being saved. “They both admitted to the existence of a heaven inhabited by beautiful ones…and a hell peopled by demons situate in the bowels of earth� (Cumont 191).
Contrasting with their common religious environment, both Christianity and Mithraism prided themselves in brotherhood and organized their members as church congregations. Both religions purified themselves through baptism, and each participated in a similar type of sacrament, bread and wine. Mithra was born in a cave, likewise the setting for the nativity of Jesus in the widely-read and influential Gospel of James. Both nativities were celebrated on December 25th, and each savior was visited by shepherds and Magi. Both Mithraism and Christianity considered Sunday their holy day, despite early Christianity observing the Jewish Sabbath for centuries. Many have noted that the title of Pope (father) is found in Mithraic doctrine and seemingly prohibited in Christian doctrine. The words Peter (rock) and mass (sacrament) have original significance in Mithraism.
Mithraism and early Christianity considered abstinence, celibacy, and self-control to be among their highest virtues. Both had similar beliefs about the world, destiny, heaven and hell, and the immortality of the soul. Their conceptions of the battles between good and evil were almost identical, including a great and final battle at the end of times. Christianity adopted the millennial epochs that were integral to Mithraism from Zoroastrianism. Mithraism's flood at the beginning of history was deemed necessary because what began in water would end in fire, according to Mithraic eschatology. Both religions believed in revelation as key to their doctrine. Both awaited the last judgment and resurrection of the dead. Christ and Mithra were both referred to directly as the "Logos" (Larson 184).
When inducted into the degree of Leo, he was purified with honey, and baptised, not with water, but with fire, as John the Baptist declared that his successor would baptise. After this second baptism, initiates were considered "participants," and they received the sacrament of bread and wine commemorating Mithra's banquet at the conclusion of his labors (Larson 190).
Although the cult of Mithra rivaled Christianity in Rome, they were among different social classes. Mithra was popular among soldiers and nobles after four centuries of growth. Mithraism had a disadvantage to Christian populism by barring women and emphasizing the elitist nature of the belief. Under emperors like Julian and Commodus, Mithra became the patron of Roman armies (Cumont 87). Christians likewise referred to themselves as soldiers of Christ. They venerated Jesus in Mithraic sun-god fashion, calling him Light of the World or Son (Sun) of Righteousness. Christians also claimed their savior's death was marked by a solar eclipse. Sunday became the primary day of worship, the seven-day week having already been imported as part of the Mithraic cosmology of planetary influences.
Mithra’s birthday was adopted by Christians in the 4th century A.D. as the birth of Christ (J. Smith 146). Some claimed Mithra's mother was a mortal virgin. Others said Mithra had no mother, but was miraculously born of a female rock, or the petra genetix, conceived by God's lightning (de Riencourt 135). Mithra's birth was witnessed by shepherds and by Magi bearing gifts to his sacred birth-cave of the Rock (J. Smith 146). Mithra's image was buried in a rock tomb, a sacred cave that represented his Mother's womb. This was ritualistically removed each year, and he was said to live again. Mithra’s triumph and ascension to heaven were celebrated during the spring equinox, as during Easter, when the sun rises toward its apogee.
Mithra performed miracles of raising the dead, healing the sick, making the blind see, the lame walk, and casting out devils. As a Peter, son of the petra (rock), he carried the “keys� to the kingdom of heaven, as St. Peter is said to have the keys to the gates of Heaven (H. Smith 129). Before returning to heaven, Mithra had his Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. In memory, his worshipers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with a cross (Hooke 89, Cumont 160). This was one of seven Mithraic sacraments, the models for the Christian seven sacraments (James 250). It was called mized and in Latin missa and in English mass.
Mithra's cave-temple on the Vatican Hill was seized by Christians in 376 A.D. (J. Smith 146). Christian bishops in Rome pre-empted even the Mithraic high priest's title of Pater Patrum, which became Papa, or Pope (H. Smith 252). Mithraism entered into many doctrines of Manichean Christianity and continued to influence its old rival for over a thousand years (Cumont, Oriental 154)). The Mithraic festival of Epiphany, marking the arrival of sun-priests or Magi at the Savior's birthplace, was adopted by the Christian church only as late as 813 A.D. (Brewster 55).
It is fairly probable that Christianity emphasized common features that attracted Mithra followers, perhaps the crucifix appealed to those Mithra followers who had crosses already branded on their foreheads. In art, the halo was a well-known depiction of Mithra, a true sun god, but which also depicts Christ in a similar way. However, differences such as star gazing were persecuted as heresy, although zodiac beliefs were too common by then to be removed. Trypho wrote that “Justin Martyr declared that in a certain cave near Bethlehem…Mary brought forth the Christ…those who presided over the mysteries of Mithras were stirred up by the devil to say that in a place called among them a cave, they were initiated by them� (LXXVIII). Tertullian demonized Mithraism as a perverted truth planted by the devil.
oops, Mithras=Christ

Quote:
Mithraism apparently originated in the Eastern Mediterranean around the first or second centuries BC. It was practiced in the Roman Empire since the first century BC, and reached its apogee around the third through fourth centuries AD, when it was very popular among the Roman soldiers. Mithraism disappeared from overt practice after the Theodosian decree of AD 391 banned all pagan rites, and it apparently became extinct thereafter.
-----and more
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:32 PM   #2
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Christ walks into see Mithras

Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar
You're gonna go far, fly high
You're never gonna die, you're gonna make it if you try
They're gonna love you
Well I've always had a deep respect, and I mean that most sincerely
The lie is just fantastic, that's really what I think
Oh by the way ain't it great not to think?
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy
We call it Riding the Gravy Train
We're just knocked out. We heard about the sell out
You gotta get a religion out, you owe it to the people
We're so happy we can hardly count
Everybody else is just green, have you seen the chart?
Its a helluva start, it could be made into a monster if we all
pull together as a team
And did we tell you the name of the game boy
We call it Riding the Gravy Train

[thanks Roger Waters http://pinkfloydhyperbase.dk/albums/...m#HAVE_A_CIGAR personal use and quotation]
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:41 PM   #3
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I like the Floyd takeoff, RTS- but this is a tremendously broad subject. You need to narrow it down- and it'll play better in BC&H, I'm thinking.
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:54 PM   #4
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is broad banned?

at least I'm not spamming like on those threads.... what were they? Oh yeah.

Determinism means ____________

I hated that. Better a committed submarine sandwich thread then 300 cheese grindings.
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:49 AM   #5
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I think it is important that the early history of Christ is mapped out by Infidels Posters. Let's start from the very roots at about 300 BCE and look at the entire progression until the Council of Not So Niceia in 325 CE.

Sources can be any and many,

we should review

www.wikipedia.com

www.google.com

and search Gnostisim

and Mithrasism

and such and such

Okay!

The Years are 300-250 BCE (BC)

what is going on in the world that hints to the origins of Christianity?

In Rome=

In Israel=

In the Greater Middle East=

Our first assignment!

We will go by fifty year intervals and assemble a working model of Christianity's origins and through it, a working model of Christianity and the Psychology behind it!

Any one who considers themselves a student of history or is familiar with historical progression may participate, which I assume is mostly everyone, if not everyone.
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:51 AM   #6
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_century_BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...rael_and_Judah

Quote:
The Punic Wars


Hannibal's route of invasion given graciously by The Department of History, United States Military Academy


Main article: Punic Wars In 264 BC, Carthage was a Phoenician colony on the coast of modern Tunisia. It was powerful city-state with a large commercial empire, and, with the exception of Rome, the strongest power in the western Mediterranean. While Carthage's navies were uncontested, it did not maintain a strong standing army. Instead, it relied on mercenary armies, hired with it's considerable wealth from it's trading empire, to fight its wars for it.
As soon as Rome had consolidated its control in Italy, it came into conflict with Carthage as Rome attempted to expand it's influence into the Mediterranean. Rome and Carthage would fight a series of three Punic Wars ('Punic' is Latin for 'Phoenician') between 264 and 146 BC. The Roman victories over Carthage in these wars made Rome the most powerful nation in Europe and the Mediterranean, a status it would retain until the division of the Roman Empire into the Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire by Diocletian in 286 AD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Republic

Quote:
Zoroastrianism (Kurdish: Zerdeştî, Persian: زرتشتی, Zartoshti) was once the state religion of Sassanid (Sassanian) Iran, and played an important role in the Achaemenid as well as Parthian empires in Persia or more properly Iran. The religion is also known as Mazdaism by some followers and Zarathustrianism by others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
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Old 02-06-2006, 03:05 PM   #7
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This contains a long and unattributed quote discussing Mithras (confused here with Persian Mitra), which seems full of dubious material. Surely we have discussed these myths before?

All the best,

Roger Pearse
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Old 02-06-2006, 03:12 PM   #8
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The Mithra myth cannot be kept down, especially in threads that get transferred to BCH.

Here's the latest Mithras thread that I can find: Mithra
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