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Old 08-26-2005, 02:30 PM   #1
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Default A new way of dividing the writings

I recently thought it would be a neat idea to figure out which of the early Christian writings speak anything of Jesus defeating sin and absolving Christians from sin. Perhaps there would be some pattern or further line of investigation when the writers were so classed. You help me figure it out.

"Jesus saved us from our sins through his death" category

Gospel of Matthew (Mt 1:21, Mt 26:28)
Gospel of John (Jn 1:29)
Romans (5:12)
1 Corinthians (15:3)
2 Corinthians (5:21)
Galatians (1:4)
Colossians (1:14)
1 Timothy (1:15)
Hebrews (1:3)
1 Peter (2:24)
1 John (1:7)
Revelation (1:5)
Gospel of Peter (13)
Epistle of Barnabas (5:1)
1 Clement (16)
Ignatians (Smyrnaeans 6:2)
Polycarp (1:2)
Justin Martyr

No "Jesus saved us from our sins through his death" statement

?Q?
Gospel of Mark (or do we count "as a ransom for many"?)
Gospel of Luke
James
Didache
Gospel of Thomas
Apocryphon of James
Shepherd of Hermas
Apology of Aristides
Gospel of Truth

Unsure or too short

Ephesians (need to check entire thing)
Philippians (need to check entire thing)
1 Thessalonians (need to check entire thing)
2 Thessalonians (need to check entire thing)
2 Timothy (need to check entire thing)
Titus (need to check entire thing)
2 Peter (need to check entire thing)
2 John (too short)
3 John (too short)
Jude (too short)
Egerton (too short)
Apocalypse of Peter (need to check entire thing / too short)
Preaching of Peter (too short)
Papias (too short)
Apocryphon of John (need to check entire thing)
Gospel of Mary (too short, perhaps)
Epistula Apostolorum (need to check entire thing)

I stopped around the time of Justin Martyr.

This categorization work has been done based solely on a search for the word "sin" and its use. Corrections very welcome, as well as additions and clarifications of the "unsure" list.

What conclusions, if any, do you think we can draw from this kind of exercise?

kind thoughts,
Peter Kirby
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Old 08-27-2005, 09:13 AM   #2
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I'm bumping this because I'd like to see it discussed.

kind thoughts,
Peter Kirby
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:24 PM   #3
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Peter, thank you for sharing with all of us this new way of dividing the writings. To me it is interesting and reasonable. I think that the idea "Jesus saved us from our sins through his death" is not original for the gospels and the early christians and there are a lot of evidences for this. For example the struggles about the identity of Christ continued for centuries. Mark, the earliest gospel, is in the category "NO Jesus saved us from our sins through his death". The gnostic gospels which are extreemly in this category were excluded from the canon. And there are more arguments about this.
What I intended to say is that this dividing (in my opinion) defend the argument that Jesus saved us from our sins through his death is late added to the person of Jesus is not original state. So this dividing helps us to understand which writings preserve the original idea for Jesus which is NO Jesus saved us from our sins through his death.
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Old 08-27-2005, 04:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kirby
I recently thought it would be a neat idea to figure out which of the early Christian writings speak anything of Jesus defeating sin and absolving Christians from sin. Perhaps there would be some pattern or further line of investigation when the writers were so classed. You help me figure it out.
These are late 2nd/early 3rd century, so may be later than you are after. Coincidently, I'd just mentioned this topic in another thread:

On the question of atonment, Karen Armstrong in her "History of God" writes that Clement of Alexandria (180 CE) "believed that Jesus was God" and "if Christians imitated Christ, they too would become deified: divine, incorruptible and impassible". Also, Origen (220 CE) "did not believe that we had been 'saved' by the death of Christ but that we ascended to God under our own steam. The point is that when Origen and Clement were writing and teaching their Christian Platonism there was no official doctrine [on salvation]". (p. 119, Mandarin, 1993)
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Old 08-28-2005, 12:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kirby
Gospel of Mark (or do we count "as a ransom for many"?)
I think this is enough to move it to the other category.

Quote:
Ephesians
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" (1:7, KJV)

"And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.(5:2, KJV)

Close enough?
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