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Old 07-09-2009, 06:37 AM   #31
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What Jesus understood the Law to require was that you must lend freely and not require repayment.
The authors of the NT cast Jesus as a PR front-man
for the importance of the imperial taxation policies.
Step (1): Pay tax to Caesar.
Step (2): God is in second place.
You ignore the larger social/historical context that refusing to pay taxes to Caesar would be a revolutionary act and lead to the destruction of Israel.
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:12 PM   #32
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Was it the tax or the fact that the Romans treated the emperor as a God.
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:34 PM   #33
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Was it the tax or the fact that the Romans treated the emperor as a God.
"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's" quite clearly prohibits emperor worship. That's a good point. It is also true that what is permitted to be given to Caesar has no lasting value.

Peter.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:16 PM   #34
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I would have been really impressed if the lord and savior could write.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:33 PM   #35
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Hillel was by human standards a good and wise man, but he was also what Jesus called a "play-actor." This was because Hillel found ways of excusing people from what Jesus believed God's law required.
This you received from the Lord direct, I presume. Thanks for sharing !

Jiri
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:40 PM   #36
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I would have been really impressed if the lord and savior could write.
I would be impressed with a single Hebrew gospel. But the Europeans made no such demands.
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Thor Q. Mada View Post
I would have been really impressed if the lord and savior could write.
Eusebius would have people believe that the lord and saviour
got a quick rescript back to the King of Edessa, letting the
king know that he could not do a house-visit immediately
because he was a little hung up, but that sometime much
later he would arrange that one of the the Miraculous Healing
Crew of Apostles perform a "Good Christian House-Call" and fix
the King up just like a real doctor would.

This letter of Jesus was produced by Eusebius in his "Hi story".
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:55 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by mountainman View Post

The authors of the NT cast Jesus as a PR front-man
for the importance of the imperial taxation policies.
Step (1): Pay tax to Caesar.
Step (2): God is in second place.
You ignore the larger social/historical context that refusing to pay taxes to Caesar would be a revolutionary act and lead to the destruction of Israel.
Most people including me think that the author(s) of the NT
actually wrote during an epoch which was after the Roman's
military victory at Masada c.72 CE, and the effective
destruction of Israel.



The New Testament sayings of Jesus were harvested
and compiled in their first drafts, according to the collective
after the destruction of Israel in the first century, by the Romans.

When? Unknown but after 72 CE

It was a case of milking the literary milieu of Hellenistic wisdom
sayings for what it was worth. The compilers of the sayings
of Jesus moved within a brand new political epoch during
which they understood that it was in Harry Jewish Jesus
Potter that they lived and breathed and had their being,
rather than living and breathing and moving in Zeus, as the
original Hellenistic poet intended the literature he authored.

"Render tax to Caesar in the very first instance" are imperial
Roman taxation policies. Why are they found in the mouth of
the omnipotent God of the known Universe inside the Hubble
Limit? It is as if the NT was designed to assist Roman Emperors
rule more effectively. What more could they ask of the sayings
of Mr. Public Jesus Relations than to ratify their taxation policy?

The bible was first widely published by a Roman emperor.
How about that for a coincidence!

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Originally Posted by premjam
Was it the tax or the fact that the Romans treated the emperor as a God.
For those Graeco-Romans who moved in the sphere of property and income
and all that went with money, from the biggest to the smallest, not only
was the emperor the God of Living and Dying, but also the God of Taxation.

For those who were ascetics, priests for example with no property, and
the poor who had no income, and the old, or sick, etc, then the emperor
was still the God of Living and Dying, but his role as the God of Taxation
no longer played any form of operational role in their day-to-day lives.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:13 PM   #39
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Nah, his disciples were too busy to sit around and write every single detail as per John 21:24-25
Kind of hard to record the details 100 years after they happened, huh?
It was less than a 100 years.

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Kysar also observes on the dating of the Gospel of John: "The earliest date for the gospel hinges upon the question of whether or not it presupposes the destruction of the Temple in 70 C.E. Most agree that it does, although there have been persistent attempts to argue otherwise. The reasons for positing a post-70 date include the view of the Temple implicit in 2:13-22. Most would argue that the passage attempts to present Christ as the replacement of the Temple that has been destroyed." (p. 918) Note also the irony of 11:48: "If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our place [i.e. temple] and our nation." Finally, there is no mention of the Sadducees, which reflects post-70 Judaism. The retort that there is also no mention of scribes misses the mark, as the Pharisees represented the scribal tradition, and the Pharisees are mentioned.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:38 AM   #40
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Most people including me think that the author(s) of the NT
actually wrote during an epoch which was after the Roman's
military victory at Masada c.72 CE, and the effective
destruction of Israel..
An intriguing statement, and one of great historical cadence. But why do christians think Jews would write a theology that Jews are born of the devil, accept a divine man after just facing a Holocaust against Rome's divine emperor, then write in an anti-jewish language of Latin - and make sure no Hebrew documents exist.

Christians rejected Mohammed for far less reasons.
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