Originally Posted by funinspace

I realize that you believe it to be true. I consider the reference to Rutherford to be an answer to my "why". Which is partially an answer to the question. And thanks for stating your opinion on a Flood date. Most Christians are usually unwilling to even present their POV in this area. Unfortunately, references to Rutherford is only marginally available on the web. Ok, you say this author's analysis is true. Could you elaborate as to the logic/reasoning he uses to get to this date? I assume by your many other statements that you believe the Bible it true as well. And from one of your other sites you frequent ( http://www.evcforum.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000272-15.html #219 ) you state:
So let's just say the Exodus started at 1453 BC for argument sake. Why do you pick 3145 BC vice 2465 BC ( 1453 + 1012 ) which appears to come straight from the Bible? I realize you cited Rutherford's book, but I don't have a copy. So what is your (or his) logic/rational in considering Ge 5, 11, 22, 25, 47, and Ex 12? That is, what do you find in these verses, that is not as it appears to simply be? Here is the verses, and the 1012 years from the Flood to the Exodus in what appears to be very simple and clear verses:
Genesis:
5:32 After Noah was five hundred years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11:10 This is the account of Shem.
Shem was one hundred years old when he became the father of Arphaxad, two years after the flood. 11:11 And after becoming the father of Arphaxad, Shem lived five hundred years and had other sons and daughters.
(2 years After Flood (AF) Arphaxad born)
11:12 When Arphaxad had lived thirty-five years, he became the father of Shelah. 11:13 And after he became the father of Shelah, Arphaxad lived four hundred and three years and had other sons and daughters.
(2 + 35 = 37 AF)
11:14 When Shelah had lived thirty years, he became the father of Eber. 11:15 And after he became the father of Eber, Shelah lived four hundred and three years and had other sons and daughters.
(37+30=67AF)
11:16 When Eber had lived thirty-four years, he became the father of Peleg. 11:17 And after he became the father of Peleg, Eber lived four hundred and thirty years and had other sons and daughters.
(67+34=101AF)
11:18 When Peleg had lived thirty years, he became the father of Reu. 11:19 And after he became the father of Reu, Peleg lived two hundred and nine years and had other sons and daughters.
(101+30=131AF)
11:20 When Reu had lived thirty-two years, he became the father of Serug. 11:21 And after he became the father of Serug, Reu lived two hundred and seven years and had other sons and daughters.
(131+32=163AF)
11:22 When Serug had lived thirty years, he became the father of Nahor. 11:23 And after he became the father of Nahor, Serug lived two hundred years and had other sons and daughters.
(163+30=193AF)
11:24 When Nahor had lived twenty-nine years, he became the father of Terah. 11:25 And after he became the father of Terah, Nahor lived one hundred and nineteen years and had other sons and daughters.
(193+29=222AF)
11:26 When Terah had lived seventy years, he became the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
(222+70=292AF)
21:5 (Now Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.)
(292+100=392AF)
25:26 When his brother came out with his hand clutching Esau's heel, they named him Jacob. Isaac was sixty years old when they were born.
(392+60=452AF)
47:9 Jacob said to Pharaoh, "All the years of my travels are one hundred and thirty. All the years of my life have been few and painful; the years of my travels are not as long as those of my ancestors." 47:10 Then Jacob blessed Pharaoh and went out from his presence.
(452+130=582AF)
47:28 Jacob lived in the land of Egypt seventeen years; the years45 of Jacob's life were one hundred and forty-seven in all
Ex 12:40 Now the length of time the Israelites lived in Egypt was four hundred thirty years.
(582+430=1012AF)

This gives us the grand total of time from the infamous Flood to the exodus from Egypt being 1012 years. Then, of course, they had 40 years of wandering before beginning the invasion of Canaan. So where is this interpretation wrong, and 3145 BC right?

Originally Posted by funinspace

Ok, that last thread degenerated into a potpourri of topics and then some. I don't deny WT views are eccentric. I am focusing this discussion on towards his POV of this dating (not Dan's land, the Irish, nor the GP, et.al.). I don't think WT has any delusions that I am in any agrement with these other constructs that he has defended. Most "True Believer" Christians are not even willing to even discuss this, and instead many hide behind ad homium attacks on the blinded atheists or simply ignore it. WT is willing to state his view even though he knows he will be scoffed at here, or worse.

I realize that there are many people here with impressive backgrounds (and far beyond my own), and that they find any such arguments as unworthy. I’m just seeking to clarify one aspect of WT's POV. Maybe the thread would be tolerated better in GRD, I'll let the mod's decide. And for those who think it's ~E~ material…why do you spend so much time poking at Daniel prophecy apologists?

Originally Posted by WILLOWTREE

Please tell me the breakdown of years which add up to 1012 ?

Are you thinking the stated age of any given person at the time of anothers birth = the years between the Flood and the Exodus ?

WT

Originally Posted by funinspace

Yes is the simple answer. I'm not sure what part of the above you do not understand? I start from the beginning of it. Ge 11:10 states that 2 years after the Flood, Shem had a son named Arphaxed. I used the abbreviation AF for "After Flood". 11:12 states that Arphaxed was 35, when he had Shelah. So we add the 2 years AF of when Arphaxed was born to the 35 years later, when he had his son Shelah, which adds up to 37. One can follow the above, which I spelled out, and it adds to 1012 years from the Flood to the Exodus. The last piece is Ex 12:40 which states that the Israelites lived in Egypt for 430 years. I put the calculations after each verse in parentheses. The verses seam pretty clear. I see no suggestions of allegory. What do you see?

Originally Posted by spin

Please give the full bibliographic information for the Rutherford book: full name of author, full name of publication, publishing company, year of production (is it now 1966?), and, if reviews of the book, where might they be found?


spin

Originally Posted by WILLOWTREE

The figures in our KJV were taken from the error ridden MT.

The MT intentionally cooked the timespans to shorten the chronology in order to show the advent of Messiah could not of taken place because the 6th thousand year day had not arrived. Thus the corruption of pre-Exodus chronology by a succession of Jewish doctors through-out the post-christian eras reflects a motivation to falsify the identification of Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah.

The LXX contains the correct figures which records 1692 years between the Flood and the Exodus.

source: Rutherford, Book III, chapters 11,12 [1966] (correction from 1957)

WT

Edit: The LXX version above is the earlier Alexandrine and not the Sixtine text of it.

--WT

Originally Posted by Celsus

So now we know where Willow gets his drivel from. You have to say though, one good way to avoid getting debunked is to make claims so stupid that people simply think you're insane.

Joel