FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Non Abrahamic Religions & Philosophies
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-12-2007, 05:23 AM   #21
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Indianaplolis
Posts: 4,998
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by achristianbeliever View Post

The point is that speaking to everyone didn't work. It blew up in God's face.
That rundown on the alleged history of your god's communication with mankind was... ahh... interesting... but um, why did your god try to communicate in the first place with all of mankind if he knew that it would “blow up in his face”? I mean, he is omniscient, correct? Why would an omniscient, omnipotent god EVER have to change game plans?
Jedi Mind Trick is offline  
Old 05-12-2007, 06:26 AM   #22
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gracebkr
I agree, how do we know? As I stated though, don't believe in the Bible, read it for a good read and if you find it to be a mass conspiracy, then that is your conclusion. If you find it to hold truth, then that is your conclusion. I don't think we should rely on other's views to determine what we think. For example, where does it say in The Bible only Roman Catholics will go to heaven? (1) If you read Christ's words, he says nothing of the sort. He says the opposite. I think this shows mass killings for differences would not be what Jesus wanted, so some (2) misuse the religion for their own gain.

(1)
Luke 9:49-50

49"Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."

50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

(2)
1 John 4:1-3

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.


Martin Luther did not believe Revelations should be in the Bible? Shame on him enough of the Bible is missing already.
There you go again quoting the Bible when you don't even know which writings, if any, belong in it. Are you not aware that the Bible writers might have been speaking for themselves instead of for God. They might not have been intentionally dishonest. They might have been guilty of innocent but inaccurate revelations, which is quite common in religions, right?
Johnny Skeptic is offline  
Old 05-12-2007, 07:54 AM   #23
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: usa
Posts: 272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic View Post
There you go again quoting the Bible when you don't even know which writings, if any, belong in it. Are you not aware that the Bible writers might have been speaking for themselves instead of for God. They might not have been intentionally dishonest. They might have been guilty of innocent but inaccurate revelations, which is quite common in religions, right?
I do understand that. That's why I keep saying, it as to be read by the person who is curious. When I read it, I find truth. I can relate it to my life now. If I read it and found something dishonest in my view, then that would be different. I have stated before I found dishonesty in the Jews killed Jesus and the Romans never hurt a fly. I am sure there is more. I am not a Bible thumper, but I am sure the more times I read, I might find something that seems untruthful. Do you ever have someone act as if they are being truthful to you while you know they are lying without any evidence or cause to think so? It just seems dishonest and you can't pinpoint it. You ever feel someone staring at you? We have sense that can't be explained, but we can tell things without knowing for fact beforehand.





Quote:
Here, and in other places on this forum, your arguments concerning god have been predicated on the assumption that there is one correct interpretation of Christian scripture. What you consistently fail to do is provide sound argument and evidence for why any particular interpretation is superior to all others, because, as you know, there are a great many, and they are largely incompatible (if there weren't, there wouldn't be Catholics, Protestants, Latter Day Saints, and so on).

Saying that people who do not believe in Christianity do so because they fail to 'understand [scripture] correctly' without giving any indication why your particular method is correct is a pretty flimsy argument, and one that proponents of other theological schools advance just as emphatically as you do.
Well, to your first comment I already cited what Jesus said, if they are not against Him, then they are on His side and we shouldn't worry about that.

The thing about the Bible from beginning to end is that it is a moral guide if nothing else. If someone doesn't find the moral, then they are not reading it correctly. I think too the Bible has a lot of science references in it that explain that God understood something the writers could not have. I already talked about the Virgin Birth and Adam and Eve, these are funny, but quite amazing, because we now know in the age of science, this is possible. That is why I believe God is speaking directly to people of all ages. Jesus spoke in parables so when generations later read they could find meaning. The fact that Jesus said that was like He knew there would be a time when people would need that and that His sayings will still be said. If this was just a make up story, myth, how would he know that? If the disciples made it up, how did they know that? Clearly to me there is more there. That is in my opinion how you should be reading the Bible. Think when you read, try to find how it fits in today. There are things throughout the Bible that if read unbiased, with no prejudice that can show that the writers (who lived in a time, where things were not known,) could not have known this so they had to be somehow enlightened. The reason why I think Christianity is the correct way is not only for these reasons, but also Jesus started a revolution to care about people, we are all equal in God's eyes. Turn the other cheek? what a concept?

Mark 4:10-12

Quote:
10As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables.
11And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,
12so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
This is evidence to me that Jesus knew more and the disciples just wrote down what they heard. How did He know? It seems as if He knew there would be time when people weren't going to be there to hear Him, but needed the information this way for them to believe when they come to understand. In the Gospel of Thomas Jesus says

Quote:
1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

I didn't want to cut off the end of 3.
gracebkr is offline  
Old 05-12-2007, 08:16 AM   #24
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
There you go again quoting the Bible when you don't even know which writings, if any, belong in it. Are you not aware that the Bible writers might have been speaking for themselves instead of for God. They might not have been intentionally dishonest. They might have been guilty of innocent but inaccurate revelations, which is quite common in religions, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gracebkr
I do understand that. That's why I keep saying, it as to be read by the person who is curious. When I read it, I find truth. I can relate it to my life now. If I read it and found something dishonest in my view, then that would be different. I have stated before I found dishonesty in the Jews killed Jesus and the Romans never hurt a fly. I am sure there is more. I am not a Bible thumper, but I am sure the more times I read, I might find something that seems untruthful. Do you ever have someone act as if they are being truthful to you while you know they are lying without any evidence or cause to think so? It just seems dishonest and you can't pinpoint it. You ever feel someone staring at you? We have sense that can't be explained, but we can tell things without knowing for fact beforehand.
But everyone is curious, and everyone knows that many things cannot be explained. The point is, how are you in any position to explain things better than other people can? What makes your feelings/emotions/personal observations/intelligence any more reliable than anyone else's?
Johnny Skeptic is offline  
Old 05-12-2007, 08:35 AM   #25
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: usa
Posts: 272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic View Post
But everyone is curious, and everyone knows that many things cannot be explained. The point is, how are you in any position to explain things better than other people can? What makes your feelings/emotions/personal observations/intelligence any more reliable than anyone else's?
I am not. They are not. To me they are though, who am I gonna trust more then me in this world? Who are you gonna more then yourself? No one right? So, you have to find for yourself. I cannot bring anything to you that will make you change your mind. You have control over you, you have to open up and try for yourself. People only learn through experience. You can tell your child repeatedly not to do something and give them all the reasons why they should not. They will do it anyways though and learn that way. I can tell you all I want or you want me to,but until you go that route, you will not know what I mean. I will not make sense. You will only learn through your own experience. So, I am not trying to sound like a broken record, but I do, you have to read it openly for yourself. You have to remember though, everyone is different. The Bible is not meant for only one type of person. It is meant for the skeptic and the faithful. If the Bible is true, God would want to reach all of us, so it has to be read by the person who wants to know. People will all get a different view, because they relate it to themselves. Which is another reason why I believe the Bible.
gracebkr is offline  
Old 05-12-2007, 09:56 AM   #26
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gracebkr
The Bible is not meant for only one type of person. It is meant for the skeptic and the faithful. If the Bible is true, God would want to reach all of us, so it has to be read by the person who wants to know. People will all get a different view, because they relate it to themselves. Which is another reason why I believe the Bible.
I am not aware of any good reasons to trust the Bible.
Johnny Skeptic is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:02 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.