Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Transient · 11-30-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Pete

Some of the opinions you cite were established before the domestic application of the discovery of electricity. The scholarship has progressed from that point and Margherita Guarducci addresses all the errors of previous generations and has effectively dismantled the pagan argument as Tabbernee acknowledges. It is a pity that her work hasn't been translated into English but luckily those of interested in learning from experience can use Google translator. It's a little bit of work but it is invaluable for those of us seeking the truth.

Oh I forgot. You're a propagandist. Never mind ...

For a minute I thought you were going to post something without an insult.
But then you just couldn't help yourself could you.
Is there some sort of competition amongst would be scholars to see who can sling the most and nastiest insults or are you one of a kind?

stephan huller · 12-01-2010, 07:28 PM

If you were interested in the truth you'd have to admit that you don't know enough about the complexities of earliest Christianity to even be entitled to an opinion. Your theory is only necessary because it affords arrogance to your ignorance.

Cynical nonsense.

Transient · 12-01-2010, 07:56 PM

<edit>

Transient · 12-01-2010, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

If you were interested in the truth you'd have to admit that you don't know enough about the complexities of earliest Christianity to even be entitled to an opinion. Your theory is only necessary because it affords arrogance to your ignorance.

Cynical nonsense.

Stop insulting or I will fraken insult back.
The use of words like arrogance and ignorance is insulting in this context!!!

Transient · 12-01-2010, 09:32 PM

So obviously I will no longer use the 4 letter word starting with "T" but I refuse to lie down and be insulted by Stephan Huller .
So I will use the same tactics I used at tweb when abused.
I will use the same dam words back so I cannot be picked on in preference to a forum pet.

stephan huller · 12-01-2010, 10:12 PM

I'm sorry. Perhaps I should have said this:

mountainman is the greatest living expert on Christianity. He knows more than the apostles and the Church Fathers ever did about Jesus. He went into the underworld and successfully taught the Christians of the first, second and third century that they never existed.

But his greatest accomplishment is that he gathered around him an equally erudite company of disciples.

All praise the mountainman!

Or perhaps I should have added this:

On the day which is to come he will gather together all his little children on a mountain top. He will show them the sign that the world is ready to receive their message. He will raise his hands and announce, "It is now time to shine light into the historical darkness" and then he will send his disciple out two by two into the world to confound all the teachers of lies, the so-called experts in the field of early Christianity.

In a short while they will come back to Mt Kosciuszko and declare their successes. "We have went into the world and all the teachers of lies have trembled at our coming. All the universities and all the churches have now destroyed their false idols. The false testimonies manufactured by the Nicene conspiracy are no more and the history books have been rewritten."

All praise to mountainman!

There really isn't any other way.

All of us (but not you Transient of course) who have spent so much time reading and examining the suriviving evidence possess more or less the same intellectual capacity and despite coming from very different backgrounds (Jewish, Christian, atheist, Buddhist, agnostic) have all come to a completely different conclusion than Pete. We all acknowledge that there is evidence of pre-Nicene Christianity. We may not believe in Christianity, but we acknowledge that there was a Christian faith which existed before Constantine.

mountainman wants us to believe that the countless numbers of people who have examined the evidence and considered the arguments from all these different points of view were essentially of inferior intellectual capacity. For how else can it be explained that he is the only one to have had the 'Nicene revelation'? Tens of thousands of people over the centuries all considering the same evidence and only one mountainman has been entitled to this truth!

Either he has supernatural powers to see things which which eye has not seen nor ear heard, and which have never entered the heart of man or he is all the things I have said over the last few weeks or the theory is stupid and its shortcoming are attributable to his lack of formal training, his complete unfamiliarity with all the necessary ancient languages and a tendency to make the text say what he wants them to say rather hear what the original authors intended.

As I said, all the evidence points in another direction. There are third century Christian churches and prayer halls, third century Christian monuments, inscriptions and literary fragments. Unless he has supernatural powers, if he is somehow heard a heavenly voice, or was adopted by an extraterrestial civilization which gave him superhuman gifts to see and know things beyond the abilities of ordinary human beings this is all a silly sham.

You just aren't in a position, Transient to see how silly this whole theory really is because it presupposes years of training and familiarity with the original sources and what equally intelligent people have had to say about them. Pete is only interested in sifting through these studies to sift the odd remark which supports his presuppositions. As I have said many times here, familiarity with the primary sources should shape opinions not the other way around.

Transient · 12-01-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I'm sorry. Perhaps I should have said this:

mountainman is the greatest living expert on Christianity. He knows more than the apostles and the Church Fathers ever did about Jesus. He went into the underworld and successfully taught the Christians of the first, second and third century that they never existed.

But his greatest accomplishment is that he gathered around him an equally erudite company of disciples.

All praise the mountainman!

Or perhaps I should have added this:

On the day which is to come he will gather together all his little children on a mountain top. He will show them the sign that the world is ready to receive their message. He will raise his hands and announce, "It is now time to shine light into the historical darkness" and then he will send his disciple out two by two into the world to confound all the teachers of lies, the so-called experts in the field of early Christianity.

In a short while they will come back to Mt Kosciuszko and declare their successes. "We have went into the world and all the teachers of lies have trembled at our coming. All the universities and all the churches have now destroyed their false idols. The false testimonies manufactured by the Nicene conspiracy are no more and the history books have been rewritten."

All praise to mountainman!

There really isn't any other way.

All of us (but not you Transient of course) who have spent so much time reading and examining the suriviving evidence possess more or less the same intellectual capacity and despite coming from very different backgrounds (Jewish, Christian, atheist, Buddhist, agnostic) have all come to a completely different conclusion than Pete. We all acknowledge that there is evidence of pre-Nicene Christianity. We may not believe in Christianity, but we acknowledge that there was a Christian faith which existed before Constantine.

mountainman wants us to believe that the millions of people who have examined the evidence and considered the arguments from all these different points of view were essentially of inferior intellectual capacity. For how else can it be explained that he is the only one to have had the 'Nicene revelation'? A million, perhaps two million people over the centuries all considering the same evidence and only one mountainman has been entitled to this truth!

Either he has supernatural powers to see things which which eye has not seen nor ear heard, and which have never entered the heart of man or he is all the things I have said over the last few weeks or the theory is stupid and its shortcoming are attributable to his lack of formal training, his complete unfamiliarity with all the necessary ancient languages and a tendency to make the text say what he wants them to say rather hear what the original authors intended.

As I said, all the evidence points in another direction. There are third century Christian churches and prayer halls, third century Christian monuments, inscriptions and literary fragments. Unless he has supernatural powers, if he is somehow heard a heavenly voice, or was adopted by an extraterrestial civilization which gave him superhuman gifts to see and know things beyond the abilities of ordinary human beings this is all a silly sham.

You just aren't in a position, Transient to see how silly this whole theory really is because it presupposes years of training and familiarity with the original sources and what equally intelligent people had said about them.

Look I have said before on a couple of occasions, I do not think Pete's theory is correct at all. Not because of evidence because there is very little evidence against his theory.
My reasoning is that if Constantine & Eusebius had really concocted Christianity from scratch then they would have done a far better job of the NT! Get it - read it again, then again.
By the same token I do not believe that Eusebius changed much at all because otherwise he would also have done a much better job. He either did not want to change much or he was restricted by the fact that too many already knew the real story so he couldn't change much.
You ability to reason and think seems to be severely limited.
I have said all of this before.
It does not mean that I will not question "evidence" for anything - I do not accept anything at all on face value any more.
And I by no means will accept any insults whatsoever of any nature!

stephan huller · 12-01-2010, 10:48 PM

It can be frustrating to deal with someone who misrepresents the evidence to suit a peculiar interpretation of history.

Transient · 12-01-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

It can be frustrating to deal with someone who misrepresents the evidence to suit a peculiar interpretation of history.

Yeh I guess it is but then just about everyone seems to twist "evidence" to suit their desires. People like me have seen way too much of it in our lifetime being involved in christian churches. In the end I hardly trust anyone at all.
I guess I have had enuf of crap and insults over the years and no longer put up with them hence my reactions to your posts at times.
If only we could find a pleasant way thru this.
I do not have a favorite theory or position.
If I have a wish it is that somehow there is a nice loving God who cares for us. That is my wish but it is not really what I would call a hope at all.
My trust in the RCC to have represented what really happened 2000 years ago is about zero. They look bad today and their history is shocking. So trying to work out what really happened is dam hard.

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12-01-2010, 07:28 PM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	If you were interested in the truth you'd have to admit that you don't know enough about the complexities of earliest Christianity to even be entitled to an opinion. Your theory is only necessary because it affords arrogance to your ignorance. Cynical nonsense.

12-01-2010, 07:56 PM	#3
Transient Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 412	<edit>

12-01-2010, 09:32 PM	#5
Transient Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 412	So obviously I will no longer use the 4 letter word starting with "T" but I refuse to lie down and be insulted by Stephan Huller . So I will use the same tactics I used at tweb when abused. I will use the same dam words back so I cannot be picked on in preference to a forum pet.

12-01-2010, 10:12 PM	#6
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I'm sorry. Perhaps I should have said this: mountainman is the greatest living expert on Christianity. He knows more than the apostles and the Church Fathers ever did about Jesus. He went into the underworld and successfully taught the Christians of the first, second and third century that they never existed. But his greatest accomplishment is that he gathered around him an equally erudite company of disciples. All praise the mountainman! Or perhaps I should have added this: On the day which is to come he will gather together all his little children on a mountain top. He will show them the sign that the world is ready to receive their message. He will raise his hands and announce, "It is now time to shine light into the historical darkness" and then he will send his disciple out two by two into the world to confound all the teachers of lies, the so-called experts in the field of early Christianity. In a short while they will come back to Mt Kosciuszko and declare their successes. "We have went into the world and all the teachers of lies have trembled at our coming. All the universities and all the churches have now destroyed their false idols. The false testimonies manufactured by the Nicene conspiracy are no more and the history books have been rewritten." All praise to mountainman! There really isn't any other way. All of us (but not you Transient of course) who have spent so much time reading and examining the suriviving evidence possess more or less the same intellectual capacity and despite coming from very different backgrounds (Jewish, Christian, atheist, Buddhist, agnostic) have all come to a completely different conclusion than Pete. We all acknowledge that there is evidence of pre-Nicene Christianity. We may not believe in Christianity, but we acknowledge that there was a Christian faith which existed before Constantine. mountainman wants us to believe that the countless numbers of people who have examined the evidence and considered the arguments from all these different points of view were essentially of inferior intellectual capacity. For how else can it be explained that he is the only one to have had the 'Nicene revelation'? Tens of thousands of people over the centuries all considering the same evidence and only one mountainman has been entitled to this truth! Either he has supernatural powers to see things which which eye has not seen nor ear heard, and which have never entered the heart of man or he is all the things I have said over the last few weeks or the theory is stupid and its shortcoming are attributable to his lack of formal training, his complete unfamiliarity with all the necessary ancient languages and a tendency to make the text say what he wants them to say rather hear what the original authors intended. As I said, all the evidence points in another direction. There are third century Christian churches and prayer halls, third century Christian monuments, inscriptions and literary fragments. Unless he has supernatural powers, if he is somehow heard a heavenly voice, or was adopted by an extraterrestial civilization which gave him superhuman gifts to see and know things beyond the abilities of ordinary human beings this is all a silly sham. You just aren't in a position, Transient to see how silly this whole theory really is because it presupposes years of training and familiarity with the original sources and what equally intelligent people have had to say about them. Pete is only interested in sifting through these studies to sift the odd remark which supports his presuppositions. As I have said many times here, familiarity with the primary sources should shape opinions not the other way around.

12-01-2010, 10:48 PM	#8
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	It can be frustrating to deal with someone who misrepresents the evidence to suit a peculiar interpretation of history.

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