Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 08-10-2005, 11:27 PM

I invite Christians to present their cases for the Resurrection without referring to any written records. If Jesus had lived in say 3500 B.C., would the Christian Church still be as large as it is today? In Old Testament times, why did God choose to reveal knowledge of his specific existence and will only to a very small part of the world, and primarily to only one ethnic group of people?

Gary Habermas and Mike Licona wrote a book titled 'The Case For the Resurrection of Jesus. Following are some excerpts:

"We would like to point out that, for the Christian, there is a difference between knowing that Jesus rose from the dead with reasonable historical certainty and living on the personal assurance that Christianity it true. Paul wrote in Romans 8:16 that 'the Spirit Himself testifies with out spirit that we are children of God.' The Christian has the Holy Spirit who testifies to her that Christianity is true and that she belongs to God. The historical certainty we have of Jesus' resurrection only reinforces that God's Spirit had indeed spoken to us."

Is not making a case for the historical certainty what Bible apologetics is primarily all about?

Peter Kirby · 08-10-2005, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

I invite Christians to present their cases for the Resurrection without referring to any written records.

For a serious attempt at this, see The Structure of Resurrection Belief by Archbishop Peter Carnley of Perth.

best wishes,
Peter Kirby

Vinnie · 08-11-2005, 12:11 AM

argument ala church is all i can think of

Toto · 08-11-2005, 12:15 AM

Habermas and Licona have constructed an apologetic argument that is aimed at a modern literal-minded person with little sense of poetry or literature, who doesn't really know what history is about and can be taken in by superificial arguments.

Johnny Skeptic · 08-11-2005, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby

For a serious attempt at this, see The Structure of Resurrection Belief by Archbishop Peter Carnley of Perth.

Peter, I was unable to access the link. Will you please e-mail me the article at doubtingthomas@tampabay.rr.com, or is it a book?

Toto · 08-11-2005, 12:29 AM

I added the link - it is to the book on Amazon.

Here is one of the reviews:

Quote:

An Honest Bishop, January 1, 2001
Reviewer: Peter Kirby
Peter Carnley is the Archbishop of Perth, Australia. My main interest in this book was the 28-page section on the historical evidence surrounding the resurrection stories. Carnley concludes honestly that the historical evidence is insufficient to justify belief in the resurrection of Christ. To overcome the shortfall, Carnley goes on to suggest an epistemology in which Christians know of the resurrection of Jesus through the witness of the church or the Holy Spirit. Personally, I place no stock in such and conclude that it would be most reasonable not to believe.

08-10-2005, 11:27 PM	#1
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Where would Bible apologetics be today without written records? I invite Christians to present their cases for the Resurrection without referring to any written records. If Jesus had lived in say 3500 B.C., would the Christian Church still be as large as it is today? In Old Testament times, why did God choose to reveal knowledge of his specific existence and will only to a very small part of the world, and primarily to only one ethnic group of people? Gary Habermas and Mike Licona wrote a book titled 'The Case For the Resurrection of Jesus. Following are some excerpts: "We would like to point out that, for the Christian, there is a difference between knowing that Jesus rose from the dead with reasonable historical certainty and living on the personal assurance that Christianity it true. Paul wrote in Romans 8:16 that 'the Spirit Himself testifies with out spirit that we are children of God.' The Christian has the Holy Spirit who testifies to her that Christianity is true and that she belongs to God. The historical certainty we have of Jesus' resurrection only reinforces that God's Spirit had indeed spoken to us." Is not making a case for the historical certainty what Bible apologetics is primarily all about?

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08-11-2005, 12:11 AM	#3
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	argument ala church is all i can think of

08-11-2005, 12:15 AM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Habermas and Licona have constructed an apologetic argument that is aimed at a modern literal-minded person with little sense of poetry or literature, who doesn't really know what history is about and can be taken in by superificial arguments.

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