Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 06-17-2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

Why attack a religion you don't believe is true?

Because fundamentalist Christians typically unfairly attempt to legislate their religious beliefs.

What do you believe is true? What is your worldview?

notasheep · 06-17-2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

But it is not possible to sin if one is set free from the law whereby we are convicted of sin.

The new creation in Christ is not free from the law until the mind is transformed by way of crucifixion, subsequent ascension, assumption and finally coronation.

Which happens when? Because it looks like at least 99.9% of christians still find it possible to sin. Maybe, by "coronation", you mean it won't happen until they get to heaven, which means it has no practical value in this life. (Makes me think of "kissing Hank's ass")

notasheep · 06-17-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

Not so.

Huh? Do you mean you've stopped sinning, entirely, or what?

Chili · 06-17-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notasheep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

But it is not possible to sin if one is set free from the law whereby we are convicted of sin.

The new creation in Christ is not free from the law until the mind is transformed by way of crucifixion, subsequent ascension, assumption and finally coronation.

Which happens when? Because it looks like at least 99.9% of christians still find it possible to sin. Maybe, by "coronation", you mean it won't happen until they get to heaven, which means it has no practical value in this life. (Makes me think of "kissing Hank's ass")

Coronation is when we crown Mary as queen of our heaven and our earth, which will be the New Heaven and New Earth as described in Rev.21:1 wherein the celestial sea is gone because we crowned her queen of heaven and earth. Iow, there is no HS left to guide us and inspire us when needed (based on the Catholic notion that Mary is the queen of angels and source of the HS).

Well it just is not very smart to be counted among the righteouss if one belongs to the wicked. That is like feeding a wolf with a never ending need to be justified as a sheep.

Chili · 06-17-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notasheep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau

Not so.

Huh? Do you mean you've stopped sinning, entirely, or what?

Gal.5:1 "it was for LIBERTY that Christ freed us. So stand firm and do not take upon yourself the yoke of slavery a second time. pay close attention to me, Paul, whne I tell you that if you have yourself circumsized, Christ will be of no use to you!!! I point out once more to all who receive circumcision that they are bound by the law in its entirety. Any of you who seek your justification in the law have severed yourself from Christ and have fallen from Gods favor."

John2 3:9 "He who is in Christ cannot sin."

notasheep · 06-17-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

John2 3:9 "He who is in Christ cannot sin."

Well, thanks for the bible verse. I now realize that I've never met anyone who is "in christ", so there's no point in even trying to believe.

Chili · 06-17-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notasheep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

John2 3:9 "He who is in Christ cannot sin."

Well, thanks for the bible verse. I now realize that I've never met anyone who is "in christ", so there's no point in even trying to believe.

That is exactly right. In the end faith is a liability if only the truth can set us free. Only knowledge frees and that does not include memorized passages that can only add to confusion as if they are the yeast of the pharisees.

This would also be why Catholics are Catholic instead of Christian but are at best Christians-in-becoming wherefore we have James on board who actually is a purgatorian without end.

Good works are always ours because that is how we color our own heaven (what is tied on earth is tied in heaven and what is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven). We see this when we arrive at Rev.14:13 where the spirit added that "[our] good works accompany [us]" and these will be the disciples that we raised into the upper room . . . that at one time was called the netherworld. Do you follow?

notasheep · 06-17-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Do you follow?

Hell, no. I've got no freaking idea what you're babbling about. Later.

Chili · 06-17-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notasheep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Do you follow?

Hell, no. I've got no freaking idea what you're babbling about. Later.

Well thanks for being a good sport.

Knupfer · 06-17-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayrok

Ezekiel 36:25-27 --- 25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (King James Version)

God will regather his people, sprinkle water on them and cleanse them from their iniquities... Then give them a new heart and will put his (God's) spirit within them, which will cause them to walk righteously in his statutes and be able to keep his judgments (laws/commandments).

Verse 36 -- .... I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

Question - If it is possible and even God's plan (in writing) to cleanse the Israelites, and put his own spirit in them to allow them to be able to follow his laws properly, why didn't he do it?

1. Why the need to send Jesus at all? If God was going to fix it where they were righteous and could keep his laws, isn't that what he wanted the whole time?

2. If the laws were too difficult to keep and only pointed out man's sin, as Paul taught, why would God make a false promise (or sense of hope) like that to the Jews where he promises they'll receive a new heart and be able to follow his laws?

3. And if he did follow through on his promise to put his spirit in them to cause them to keep his laws, how would that not violate their free will?

Because only Christ's death is what makes us clean. Jesus said in John 16:7, "Unless I go away, the Counselor (Holy Spirit) will not come to you."

Without Jesus's sacrifice for our sins, we would have no atonement for them. The Holy Spirit is also Jesus himself (the Holy Ghost, if you will) that we could not receive if Jesus himself had not died in the flesh and become Spirit. So the Holy Spirit is the risen Lord.

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