jadeus

I make the obvious point that persecution in not exclusive to Christians. It's human nature and this is an "infidel mob." Doesn't bother me, I just thought I'd point out your hypocrisy (doing what you say the Christians did to science)


Everyone I talk to has some type of Doom scenario, whether it be God with vengeance or global warming. It's getting even more difficult to envision the existence of man for eternity. Daniels dreams was very cryptic. It supports pre-destiny in the sense that it may seem this information is "prewritten" in the human conscious of every person and they express it in various ways.

Here's the kicker. I do think humans will continue to exist, after another evolutionary change. The End of man is the "end" in the sense that it is the meaning. The evolutionary trait is the ability to truly perceive other humans, i.e. Love. Hence all this bible stuff and other religious requirements.

jadeus

Here's a good poll...

Do you believe that it is proper or improper for the Ten Commandments to be displayed in a government building?" N=1,512 adults, MoE ± 3

.

---------------Proper---------------Improper------------Unsure

8/5-10/04---72 %-------------------23%------------------5%

Pew Research Center/Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life survey conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Aug. 5-10, 2004. Nationwide.

Just look around, crosses everywhere!

Naruto

And yet you still have a persecution complex

badger3k

Out of 100+ million people they take a poll of 1512. Sorry - I am familiar with statistics and polling, and know how easy it is to manipulate the questions and the data to produce the desired result. Do you have the original data for review (including how the people were reached, what their religious background was, when they were reached, etc). The question also might illustrate that most people might buy into the propaganda that our laws are based on the Bible, when they owe more to Roman and Greek Law, and things like the Magna Carta/etc. Perception does not make fact, nor do wishes (unfortunately).

Besides, the fact that there are a lot of Christians in this country (although the number is dropping as I understand) doesn't make this a Christian nation. There is more than enough in our Constitution, laws, and other things that can prove that to all but the most hard headed Christian (and I am suere it has been argued here as well, so I'll stop there and get back to the thread).

Jack the Bodiless

I repeat: there is no Biblical prophesy of the re-emergence of Israel in 1948.

You've merely posted an out-of-context verse from Exodus, written AFTER (and referring to) the alleged occupation of Israel after the EXODUS from Egypt.

Sven

What? We said that Christians moved threads because they were afraid of the truth? :rolling:

In case you didn't notice: This thread is still alive, it was not deleted. Nobody is afraid of anything here.

What the heck?
In case you don't know: humans have "evolutionary changed" as long as the species homo sapiens sapiens exists (at least 120 000 years) - as has every other species on this planet. Your statement simply makes no sense.

jadeus

How can you occupy a country that had no organized government? Aside from this, who are you to interpret what EXODUS was, then? Jews and Palestinians are brothers, noting the similarities of their languages, and must establish a unified government.

badger3k

Doubtful on forming a unified country or government. Too much prejudice, hatred, and other factors to make that a possibility, especially when you consider that many Israelis regard the whole of Palestine as theirs and they want every non-Jew out of "their" land. After all, their book says the land is theirs alone, so that has to be good for everyone, right? I want to see the signature on the deed that lets them ignore the same laws of the UN that got Iraq invaded.

Edit - I want to add that the idea is a nice thought, and I agree that the two people are related (in a closer sense than we are all humans), but it's wishful thinking to believe a unified state is possible.

How do you occupy a country that has no organized government? Worked for the US and the American Indians, didn't it? When you say "no organized government" you mean "no large unified country". The evidence suggests that in the time we speculate, from 1400-1000 BCE, there were numerous city-states and small communities that had their own governments. I remember one of the Egyptian - hmm, satraps, maybe - complaining to the Pharoah how other cities were not giving him tribute and indeed were attacking him.

Also, occupy doesn't mean maintain a military presence over everything, and control the rulers. In some cases, occupation was limited to a garrison (perhaps) and oaths of fealty and tribute from the region. In other cases, it was replacement of the ruler/ruling body. Same way it's always been through history. How did the Romans occupy the lands of the Germanic and Gaullish (or Gaullic?) tribes if they had no unified command structure?

As for what the Exodus stands for - it could be many things. It can be an attempt to mytholicize their history - to make it special (first from Sumeria or Babylon through Abraham and through Egypt with Moses), claiming descent from two large powers in the region. It can be part history, since the people of the region apparently did do seasonal work in Egypt, and the story of Joseph might have some basis in that some of the Proto-Israelites did migrate to Egypt during times of famine. One record I am aware of states where the pharoah had to send these people away because the famine was bad and Egypt herself was having trouble. That incident alone could have been rewritten to make their leaving a victory instead of an ignoble send-off.

Hell, I can go on and on with theories I heard, but the key is that the story tells ultimately of a triumphant origin and a special one - the military conquest that supposedly occured is another part of that. In any case, the Exodus story can also be a mixture of many other beliefs and legends that were written down by some scribes to help cement a racial identity of a disparate group of peoples, so to just look at the story as a whole may not get to the origin of the individual parts.

jadeus

It becomes more doubtful as Sharon cut off all ties with Palestine and threatens more attaches. However as the US gets involved, an achievable solution can be found in some sort of duel-democracy. This can become the catalyst to making the Islamic community an ally with the US in a third world war. Us involvement in Iraq symbolizes God will to punish Sadam’s acts against the Shii Muslim. Sadams defeat was in the same place where Umayyad troops massacred Husain ibn Ali and his infant son when he set out from Medina to Iraq in 683, which is the symbol for Shii. This can be viewed to the Islamic community as retribution for the death of the Prophet’s bloodline. United in a commons theological ancestry, the third world war will battle secularist regimes (communism). Or maybe not, like you said

Hmm.. duel-democracy with sovereign boundaries?

Long live the Navaho Nation. What ever category you want you put America in has to include passing out infested blankets. Despite the past, the PLO should take this opportunity in the world stage.


These tribes all had some sort of king. But the Roman goals included imposing their culture of these conquests. Hence the use of Latin in these languages.


The promise land symbolizes something for everyone. But the state of Israel symbolizes this promise fulfilled for the first time ever. After all Egyptian culture died and Hebrew did not, despite its fragmentation in other cultures.

Or just a simple story of self-affirmation in an attempt to convince everyone to go on the “road trip�. This adventurism lead the Jew all over the world and now they’ve just now found home. Via crazy world events.

badger3k

Yeah, the situation doesn't look good for anybody.
Two lands or dual rulers of one nation?
Well, yeah, I made a mistake in my writing, but I meant no nations as the Europeans were used to - no cities, kings, etc. Reading Washington's writings to/about the American Indians shows that at least he was aware they were a nation, although his attitudes and efforts did not have a large enough effort to change what was to come. The blankets, trail of tears, massacres, racism - all crap that shames those who did it, and the legacy of that past still curses the nation. Agree that the PLO need to take center stage, just hopefully not with more innocent deaths (and likewise from the other side).

Except Greek was the lingua franca of the region for many years. Latin may have been something like a "royal" language, but Greek was a lot more common there (along with the native languages). At least, that's my understanding. My knowledge of the times around the Roman Conquest is sketchy, as I've so far looked at earlier (and some later) periods, so I may be completely wrong.

Well, Egypt herself still exists, and while her culture has changed through the ages, the same can be said of the Jews. They have managed to keep their heritage a lot better, but that is easier when you are more inclined to clannish behavior, and have a strict set of laws (the mixed religious/civil laws to use a somewhat innacurate term we may understand better) designed to try to enforce that heritage. It's part of the pattern that has positive and negative effects (such as always seeming to be "outsiders" in many times and places, making them often victims of persecution).

I'm not sure I'd call the diaspora and the forcible eviction from many lands "adventurism", although for many Israel is still not home - many Jews see Jerusalem and the "Holy Land" as their homeland, but they do not consider themselves "Israelis" - although they would consider Jew, Hebrew, Israelite, etc. Not being Jewish, I doubt that exactly illustrates their feelings, but it's the way I basically understand it. I believe it is more to do with the politics and actions of those figures than other things, but I do believe that there are many Jews who love their country (by this I mean the countries they are citizens of).