Rich Oliver

Well Christian teaching seems pretty clear, the world was created about 6000 years ago and there was a world wide flood about 5000 years ago. However in order to discredit Gods teachings and drag people into darkness, Satan and his supporters have created the completely false science of evolution, an earth that was formed over billions of years and no flood.

Now I'm not a geologist, biologist etc so I'm not qualified to pronounce which side is correct, however am I not correct in saying that all the oil and mining companies base their explorations on Satanic science not biblical science. I can't help wondering why true Christians were so enthusiastic for Dubbyah Bush and his oil industry cronies when they had presumably made their money through a pact with Satan.

vsop44

Kittykatblack,
If you want to throw a wrench in the flood debate with your family , staying within the boundaries of Xtianity , have a look at what the Gladtidings Xtian denomination teaches about a pre-adamic flood and make your flood research based on the following link (; .

http://www.gladtidings2go.com/pre-adamic.html

Jeremiah is carried in a vision back to the time immediately after the Pre-Adamic Creation had suffered a catastrophic event, but before the Adamic Creation. He states that he saw an Earth that was lifeless and chaotic. However, he reveals that he did not see what he expected to find. The birds, men, and great cities that had populated the Pre-Adamic Earth was gone. Something happened that cause the anger of the Lord to be poured out upon the whole Earth. Everything, including men and all animal life, was destroyed. Also, because the sun was withheld from the Earth, all plant life and lower order organisms perished. Genesis 1:2 states that a great darkness was upon the face of the deep. This means that the Earth was suddenly covered with very deep waters and a black darkness, totally devoid of any light, cloaked the Earth. This flood and darkness destroyed everything that had existed in this Pre-Adamic world.

It is important that we recognize that this Pre-Adamic Creation took place long before the Adamic Creation. The catastrophic events that followed these two creations are similar, but different.

Nothing was allowed to survive during the catastrophic event that followed the Pre-Adamic Creation. This flood, revealed by Jeremiah, was total and unforgiving. It totally destroyed all life on this planet.

However, the catastrophic event that occurred after the Adamic Creation is less severe.

First, light was not withheld from the Earth.

Second, not all animal and plant life was destroyed. For example, fish and other sea animals survived, as well, as most lower life organism. Also, the Lord allowed two of every unclean animal and seven of every clean animal to be saved from destruction on Noah's Ark.

Third, not all of mankind was destroyed. Eight humans were also allowed to survive the world-wide destruction of the flood on the Ark.

Fourth, this destruction did not totally remove all evidence of creation.

Paul2

Then why all the different splinter groups of Christians who think the bible says something different?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._denominations

Bullshit.

Yet you can form an opinion like the one above? You sir, are pulling ignorance out of your ass and spreading it around. You have no idea what science is or how it's performed and yet you pass judgments anyway. The nerve!

You're not correct in saying that oil and mining companies base their explorations on satanic science? Ok.

Toto

Sarcasm, that's what. Don't try it on mom.

Paul2

damn, i hit that bait pretty hard. oh well

Donnmathan

What you have there, as others have hinted, is the family tree of the Noah story, minus one member. The history of the story follows a chronology, as each group picked it up from either a culture that came before or a neighbor, altered it, and passed it on, starting around 2600 B.C., and possibly based on an earlier real (if very local) event. Atrahasis (Akkadian), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziusudra (Sumerian), and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utnapishtim (Epic of Gilgamesh) all predate the writing of Noah into Genesis, and are remarkably similar in details; Utnapishtim even released a dove. Best information is the Hebrew picked it up from the Babylonians and worked into Genesis.

The wiki articles I linked to above are a good place to get the general idea, but follow the references for the whole story...wikipedia can get a tad fuzzy and isn't 100% reliable. Read the source materials for yourself.

jeffevnz

My advice: get out of there when you turn 18. Don't let your family change your mind through peer pressure, guilt, threats, etc. Keep your thoughts to yourself if you need to.

I was going to try and help you by looking up some stuff. I once read that a bunch of YECs with minimal qualifications in geology had joined the Institute for Creation Science, to do research that would hopefully support the idea of the Biblical flood. According to the story, as a result of their research, all or most of them concluded that the global flood never happened, that the Earth was in fact billions of years old, and subsequently left the movement. The ICR was embarassed by this and stopped funding research.

I was unable to find any links supporting that, but if it's a true story that we can confirm, I think it'd be a slam dunk against your mom.

I did find something else which cracked me up. Apparently, the Christian Identity Movement, a particularly zealous (and openly racist) group considers the folks at the ICR to be crypto-evolutionists, because they acknowledge the 2nd law of thermodynamics. That shit made my day.

To those who don't know, the 2nd law is considered the most airtight law of physics, because it is based on an almost purely mathematical argument. And a very convincing one at that. Creaionists have a curious relationship with it. They attack it when it says they can't have a global flood, but then they try to use it (or a misunderstanding of it) to argue that life is too complex to have arisen without intelligent intervention.

Minimalist

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, sir!

Minimalist

A useful re-cap of world wide flood mythology.

http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Fi-Go/Floods.html


I realize your Mom will insist that the bible version was written first....in spite of the fact that Sumerian literacy pre-dated Hebrew literacy by about 1,500 years. She won't let a small fact like that get in her way so this is really just for your edification.

Rich Oliver

Sorry I wasn't intending to catch people out. But I was trying to get across a serious point. I've never liked Monotheism so naturally I believe the scientific establishment over some Christian fundamentalists. But, and for me this is an important "but", I have not studied Geology in any depth so I am accepting the so called "scientific" view on the authority of others. To me I don't find simply appealing to one authority over another authority a satisfying argument, that's what the fundamentalists do. My suggestion is we should attack the inconsistency of the Fundies, they want Creationism taught in schools but seem totally unconcerned that American prosperity for the last hundred years has been built on totally unbiblical science.