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Originally Posted by Solo
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Originally Posted by John Kesler
And the proof that "Yahweh met him" is a locution for the "spirit of God" entering or being poured is... Please provide proof for your assertion, preferably by citing other OT passages that are so used.
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The Jewish god interacts with his creation via agents, and unless one is specified (e.g. the two she-bears in 2 Kings 2) a spiritual agency is a safe bet. You are free to disagree. |
What "spiritual agency" was involved when the "Jewish God" spoke with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3)? What agency was involved when the "Jewish God" conversed with Abraham (Genesis 18), or wrestled with Jacob (Genesis 32:24-30)? Asserting that "Yahweh met him" means that the "spirit of God" was poured or entered someone has not been demonstrated, so I will disagree with your assertion.
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Originally Posted by Solo
Who says I "had to" ? I gave you a reading from Job in which Yahweh says to Satan that Job is in his hands. I'll stick with that.
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And the text says nothing about Satan's "possession" of Job.
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Originally Posted by Solo
Paul prays to the Lord to make Satan stop harrassing him (and it is the Lord and not Satan who refuses)...
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Originally Posted by John Kesler
Even assuming for argument's sake that whatever passage you have in mind (Paul's "thorn in the flesh," 2 Corinthians 12:7?) merits the conclusion that you draw, why should one passage...
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Originally Posted by Solo
Check also 1 Cr 15:27-30
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Okay, I checked this passage:
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27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection," it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all. 29 Otherwise, what will those people do who receive baptism on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf ? 30 And why are we putting ourselves in danger every hour?
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If there's something here about Paul's praying for Satan to stop harrassing him, please point it out.
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Originally Posted by John Kesler
What I have said comports with mainstream scholarship. For example, The New Interpreter's Bible, volume IV, page 348, states that, "[i]n later centuries the figure of Satan develops into the dualistic opponent of God. This hostile image of Satan is presumed by the New Testament...In the story of Job, hovever, that later development has not yet taken place."
The Oxford Companion To The Bible, page 679: "Most scholars agree that in the writings of the third/second centuries BCE are the first examples of a character who is the archenemy of Yahweh and humankind."
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Originally Posted by Solo
It would be good to see some examples of this. Between the book of Job and NT, only Zechariah mentions Satan by name.
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Exactly. Satan gets little mention in the OT, and as the NIB states, it is in "later centuries" after Job before Satan becomes "the archenemy of Yahweh and humankind," as the OCTTB says. Incidentally, your proof text," Exodus 4:24, provides an excellent example of Satan's evolution, because the author of
Jubilees rewrote that passage with "Mastema" (Satan), not Yahweh, as the one who tried to kill Moses:
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Jubilees 48:2-3
2 ...And thou thyself knowest what He spake unto thee on Mount Sinai, and what prince Mastema desired to do with thee when thou wast returning into Egypt 3 . Did he not with all his power seek to slay thee...
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06-10-2007, 05:49 PM
