Exciter

lol, you are still stuck on that one mention that someone who steals and can not afford to pay back double is sold for the debt.

It doesn't say that all criminals became slaves. You must know that a lot of crime was punished by death, or do you have some more vague, out of context strong notes to present?


btw, where are these other thousands of references about child sacrafice you promised?

Sheshbazzar

Can you really dance upon the coals and not be burned?
You claim that their enslavement was not abusive, but provide no evidence at all to back up that claim.
Whereas both I and your Bible claim that these Israelites notoriously conducted themselves unjustly, engaging in the practices of the nations around them.
Slavery under these reprobate Jews was NOT at all what you would like to claim it to be.
You repeatedly refer to "false God(s)", yet you know almost nothing at all about the God(s) that you are calling "false", and as I stated earlier, a great proportion of the world, after looking at the record of both Jewish and Christian conduct, concludes that it is -your- "god" that is the false god, and -your- lying religion that has been the cause of immeasurable yet totally needless human suffering.

The Sabbath rest of the Bible was just another rip-off and plagiarism of a practice that had been going on amongst other, earlier cultures and religions for thousands of years before Israel or its fabricated religion were ever invented.
These peoples that Israel enslaved, had long enjoyed their Sabbaths and Feast Days before Abraham was ever "born", or even imagined- Thus regarding The Sabbath, the religion of Israel, and Judaism, provided nothing that had not already been within their rights for long ages, what it did provide however, was enough restrictions, rules and death threats to choke an entire herd of camels. bleah! some improvement that was- even your christ couldn't gut it.
"Just laws" ? more biased bull-shit, laws that favored Israelite/Jews and installed institutionalised discrimination against everyone else.
"Killed for their offenses" they were no more offensive that that pack of lying, murdering, thieving, Israelis that were hell bent upon killing them, and utterly exterminating them under the genocidal decrees issued by the Jews insane and bloodthirsty gawd and his evil Israelite minions.

"All they had to do was leave."
The specific verse that I have reiterated over and over (Exodus 21:4) does not make any allowance for these victims of Israelite slavery to just "leave", they were slaves for life, doomed, to at best, be passed on like so many cattle to the next generation of Hebrew slave masters.
"Crack addicts"? Now who is trying to impose their corrupt cultural ideas upon the ANE?
And no "every victim does NOT become a perpetrator in time."
This is your own sickness of mind at work. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, in so verbally abusing innocent victims of immoral crimes.

Bottom line. it certainly IS "immoral for a God to do what he will", if what he does is the very cause of evil and of needless human suffering.
That insane and immoral great physician, that first poisons his patients, and then blames them for their being ill, not neglecting all of the insane quack physicians that practice under his auspices.

Thankfully this time of religious stupidity will prove to be only a temporary aberration in the face of all eternity, in a few thousand years, all of it will be reduced to quaint old tales in dusty and forgotten books, in a million years nothing at all of it will survive.

Problem is Steve, your Hebrew god was born only a few thousand years ago, he is by far, much too small, and much too ignorant to be the god of all eternity; A false god that is not worthy of being believed in by any free and rationally thinking person.

Sheshbazzar

IF there is a god, the one thing that is certain, is that He, (or She) is not the loony-bin god of the Jewish and Christian religions.
Its not that I don't believe, but that I believe and place my trust in something that is much greater, more powerful, and enduring,
than your imaginary bronze-age cuckoo-clock insane toy god.

sschlichter

Was the God of your imagination alive in the bronze age? Was he eternal and just then as well or did he get that later? Why did he and does he allow children to die? Slaves still exist you know. Why does he allow slavery still?

sschlichter

stuck on it? It is part of the law that we are discussing. You are stuck on avoiding it. How many mentions should it take?

Sheshbazzar

The questions as posed are inapplicable, as I have no "god",
to me, the term "god" itself, and the concept of it, are all products of ignorant religious superstitions.
What is eternal, is eternal, and is not, never was, and never will be,
anything as limited and insignificant as any human concept of a "god".

No "He" is involved or implied, no old male "father-figure" "old-man-in-the-sky" -gawd evolved from prehistoric "Patriarchal" human social relationships.

Thus "He" <sic> does not "allow children to die", other than that natual order that is inherent in the causation of all things that come into existence, to exist, to live, and to age, perish, and die, and to then cease to exist.
Eternity is not concerned with men's slavery, or with your foolish religious beliefs about the affairs of men, all of which together are less than a tiny wisp of dust upon the great expanse of eternity.
All of mankind's self-important great events, and claims, are only so many fly-specks upon a glass, but eternity and truth everlasting lies far beyond that window.
We all live out our incredibly short lives within this tiny shack that we call the earth, you and your religious cronies see all the thousands of fly-specks upon the window and attempt to connect the dots, and to persuade others that what you see there, is the face of your god;
I see the fly-shit instead,
I am looking towards that which lies beyond, beyond your childish stories, and beyond any abilities of human comprehension or explanation.

No, I will not demean what I believe in, by attemps to connect it with your old worn out Bronze-age fly-shit concepts of a "god", one that upon close examination, is composed of nothing more.

DiamondH

How can you judge child sacrifice to be immoral? Don't we have to put it into the context of the society and the times? Here you are 3000 years and 3000 miles away so how can you judge?

Sheshbazzar

"clay jars containing the charred bones of infants and some older children" is not in itself evidence on which to establish that they were the victims of alleged "child sacrifice". Many ancient cultures reverently burned their dead and then placed their remains in clay jars.
Infant mortality was normally extremely high under the primitive conditions of the time, as it still is in many Third World nations, the cremation of corpses is one of a hot climate primitive societies most effective, and safest ways to dispose of the dead, eliminating decompositions foul odors, the feeding on the dead by insects and vermin, the spread of contagion, and the contracting of that ritual religious "uncleanness" that in primitive societies is commonly thought to be incurred by contact with dead bodies.
One of the most powerful tools of religious/political propaganda has always been the accusation that the "others" practiced the ritual sacrifice of children.
It is not advisable to take the ancient Israelites religious/political propaganda accusations as being factual accounts. They were set upon destroying these nations so that they could grab their lands and flocks for gain, not exactly an unbiased source to be recieving information from.

sschlichter

Oh, it must have been a froydian slip then to suggest that there might be a God that was just and eternal. If you ever come to that conclusion, let me know how you end up reconciling him/it/her/them with pain, suffering, and death.

sschlichter

Slavery, you know is wrong, but child sacrifice, you are not convinced is a bad policy?