Soul Invictus

I am trying to confirm the historical basis for the introduction of the ritual of the Eucharist, or Communion (AKA Lord's Supper).

I understand that the Roman Catholic and Protestant positions are founded in the NT passages in Matthew 26:26-29

I thought that the actual historical reference for this rite had some basis in honoring Ptolemy V Epiphanes Eucharistos, who would have existed prior to the existence of Jesus. Can someone clarify?

Malachi151

This is something that was commonly practiced by many different groups prior to Christianity, as is the case with pretty much every Christian ritual.

Holy water? Pre-Christian.
Baptism? Pre-Christain.
Communion ? Pre-Christian.
Prayer? Obviously Pre-Christian.

I have seen references to communion type cerimonies among the Greeks, Zoroastrianism, and the cult of Osirus.

Supposedly the rebirth of Osirus was worshiped as a rite of spring every year when the wheat sprouted. Thus, the wheat was seen to symbolize Osirus being reborn, and thus bread, the "bounty of the wheat" was seen as "the body of Osirus".

robto

There are parallel passages in Luke 22:7-19 and Mark 14:22-26. Luke's version actually exists in a short form and a longer form (in different manuscripts). There is a lot of debate about which version is more original/authentic.

There is also Paul's version in 1 Corinthians 11:23-26, which many scholars take to be authentic tradition and evidence that Jesus actually said some such thing before he was arrested and killed. IMO, this passage is a later interpolation. (Note that Luke's version was interpolated, or shortened, too.)

There are two versions of the Eucharist in the Didache, neither of which has anything about flesh or blood of Jesus. This makes me think the body/blood interpretation came later. The whole tradition probably developed out of a simple shared meal (see Crossan, The Birth of Christianity).

Never heard of this. Do you have a reference for it?

Various non-Jewish models have been proposed as the source of the Eucharist tradition: Mithraic meals, Dionysian festivals, pagan cult meals.... but there is very little evidence to support such an idea. OTOH, the idea that the pagan traditions influenced the later development of the Eucharistic tradition (e.g. by introducing mystery elements like the screen to hide the Eucharist) seems pretty likely.

John Kesler

Paul himself may allude to extant, pagan "Eucharist" meals:

Since Paul earlier said that food sacrificed to idols could be eaten (chapter 8), the difference seems to be that the "cup" and "table" involved worship similar to that of the Lord's Supper.

mikem

According to the synoptic gospels, the last meal that Jesus ate with his disciples was the passover meal. The gospels also indicate that one of the features of Jesus ministry was his "table fellowship with sinners", for which he came in for some criticism.

Interestingly, only Luke's gospel records the command to "do this in memory of me", as does Paul's account in 1 Corinthians 11. It is clear that whatever Jesus precise instruction, the early followers met together to share table fellowship as Jesus had done during his life and that this came to be associated in their minds with his final meal with his disciples.

Also of interest is that they did this on the first day of the week, rather than on the Jewish sabbath. This was no doubt because of the belief that Jesus rose again on the first day following the Sabbath.

Soul Invictus

Would you be able to direct me to some resources? I'd like to review some information on this.

Clivedurdle

I googled this and just about every link referenced halloween!

I know I have been going on about druids, but the sites I glanced at went on and on about this new festival of all saints or all hallows on 1 november.

Tiny problem though!

A very unimportant group, the Celts, who in the late Iron Age were the dominant group across Europe, held a festival called Samain on 1 November. And to get really into Da Vinci code territory, Chatres was one of the main European centres of Druidic rites! (Caesar notes this!)

In Ireland, Samain was a week long festival, three days before and after November 1. It survives in folk memory now.

(Ross Druids p153)

Strange links to the death and resurrection there!

Ross p 154.

Monks do like their chanting as part of the eucharist!

Clivedurdle

In the Gospels, what happens in the three days before the Last Supper and crucifiction to parallel the three days before the resurrection?

yummyfur

No, The Eucharistos in his name, is just a descriptive title and just means Benevolent, so Epiphanes the Benevolent(though many Egyptians probably didn't agree). The Christian ceremony is named such because of thankfullness or thanksgiving, another meaning for this common word.

Clivedurdle

Is it possible the lord's supper has been "bumped" from an autumn tradition to a passover date?