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Old 06-29-2007, 05:06 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by shirley knott View Post
As others have pointed out Dave, you have never pointed to a single 2+ mile thick sediment layer in any geologic column anywhere.
Never,
Not once.
And so, those of us who are familiar with the geologic column call shenanigans on your claim.
It is your claim, you need to defend it or abandon it.
I assert that examination of the geologic column shows no single layer that meets the criteria of your rather silly notion that somehow a worldwide flood submerged the entire world, and, in your words, left a 2+ mile thick sediment layer everywhere.
You assert otherwise.
Show us.
Or abandon the claim, and the flood.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott
Sorry ... I have been using "2 miles of sediment" rather loosely. You are correct that the Flood deposited layer is probably not 2 miles thick in most places. It's more like 1 mile. If you go with the Snelling/Wise Flood Boundary, then it appears from this graphic that it's about 4500 feet thick in the Grand Canyon area ... not quite a mile. So I need to revise my speech a little.

The point remains though. I don't know how anyone can see ~1 mile of sedimentary rock complete with fossils all over the earth and NOT think Global Flood. Beats me!
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:13 AM   #462
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It's hard not to ridicule the idea of continents racing around at hundreds of miles an hour, even when you're deliberately trying not to make it sound ridiculous.
Your real argument here is with Antonio Snider-Pellegrini, who was the originator of Plate Tectonics theory. He said that continent movement was catastrophic ... not slow.
Antonio Snider-Pellegrini was not the originator of the Plate Tectonics theory.

Pellegrini noticed that the coastlines of various continents fit together, and noticed that they shared similar fossils - so he suggested that they were rapidly separated during "The Flood".

His suggestion has nothing to do with Plate Tectonics, which is a thoroughly modern scientific theory developed about a century after his death.

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Note this interesting Nature article (my subscription does not cover articles older than 1997 so I only have the abstract) ...
Quote:
Nature 227, 349 - 350 (25 July 1970); doi:10.1038/227349a0

Continental Drift before 1900

N. A. RUPKE
Department of Geological and Geophysical Sciences, Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey 08540

The idea that Francis Bacon and other seventeenth and eighteenth century thinkers first conceived the notion of continental drift does not stand up to close scrutiny. The few authors who expressed the idea viewed the process as a catastrophic event.
Yep - and guess what? As our knowledge of geology grew, geologists had to reluctantly abandon this young-Earth view and admit - despite their existing young-Earth beliefs - that the amassing evidence indisputably showed that the world was, in fact, old; and that continental movement was extremely slow.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:14 AM   #463
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OK Dave, you have recanted on the thickness. This is progress.
Now, where in Egypt, China, and the Yucatan peninsula can I find traces of a 1 mile thick sedimentary layer?
Your rather silly notions require that such exist.
Show me, or recant.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:14 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by afdave
*****************************************

Also, I have see no rebuttal of my post here ...
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...45#post4559245

which shows that Petrie's own report confirms Davidson's observations which in turn vindicate Smyth.

*****************************************

And I am awaiting Mike's 'overwhelmingly convincing' alternative explanation for PI being incorporated into the GP. I am glad to see, Mike, that you didn't fall for the 'Roller Ruler' theory.
Dave,
Is your willingness to actually respond to my explanation any more than your willingness to respond to the same explanation I posted at RD.net a month ago?

I think I'll just refer you back to my previous unanswered questions about the pi-issue at RD.net.

It's the same questions you evaded and ignored already.

So how about the accuracy of Smyth's measurements. Another poster a page back brought up the Wiki reference that showed a discrepency in measurement of the GP of 15mm or more. And you have me believe that Smyth can measure a Pyramid Inch to the fourth decimal precision.

Now THAT is a glaring inconsistency if I ever saw one.
Classical measurments: plus/minus 0.015m
Smyth measurements: plus/minus 0.00005m

Was Smyth using lasers?
I have never claimed accuracy like this for Smyth. I only note that it seems the only reason for disagreement between Smyth and Petrie is this "hollowed-in" thing. And unless I missed it, I don't think Dean Anderson had an answer for my rebuttal of his speculation that the "hollowed-in-ness" was airbrushed into the photo. Petrie's own work verifies the existence of it.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:15 AM   #465
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Dave, that graphic shows 12,500 feet of sediment up to the top of Brian Head and your assertion over at RDF was that all of it was Flud sediment.
That's two and a half miles, dude.
This ratio of two and a half miles of sediment and a little over a mile of purported Flud water is what prompted you to post about your famous "shaking glass experiment".
Are you now retracting what you posted in the debate at RDF regarding the Grand Staircase formations?
 
Old 06-29-2007, 05:17 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by afdave
Your real argument here is with Antonio Snider-Pellegrini, who was the originator of Plate Tectonics theory. He said that continent movement was catastrophic ... not slow.
Big deal. Doesn't make him right.

You seem to have forgotten that we've accumulated a lot of additional knowledge in the 130 or so years since, engaged in a lot of direct physical observation of geological systems, and arrived at conclusions based upon that evidence. Pellegrini was right about past continental arrangement, and indeed cited evidence for this (i.e., closely related or identical fossils being found on different continents) but the rest of his output on the subject was mystical speculation. He didn't have an idea how those continental land masses might have moved, and his witterings about the flood were already at variance with the evidence uncovered by sixteenth century geologists who deliberately went looking for evidence of a global flood and found none.

Play another record Dave, this one is becoming as boring as it is wrong.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:17 AM   #467
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Let's continue with the basics.

From afdave:
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What do you do with evidence that Rohl has uncovered?
I am unable to find, online, Rohl's dynastic sequences; however, it is my impression that it refers to later dynasties.

If you have this data, please share it, so we can see when in Egyptian history, according to Rohl's system, the flood occurred.

So far, according to your guesstimate and the standard chronology, it occurred during the Second Dynasty.

RED DAVE
Rohl's dynastic sequences are in his book, A Test of Time. His time adjustment would probably place the founding of Egypt after the Flood, which of course it has to be. It doesn't make sense for the Egyptians to live through the Flood, and it doesn't make sense to mythologize the Flood, or make it local or what have you. So you have no choice but to reconcile the events. And Rohl's New Chronology makes it possible to do that.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:20 AM   #468
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RED DAVE ... let me ask you something. You seem to accept the conventional Egyptian Chronology uncritically. What do you do with evidence that Rohl has uncovered?........And I am awaiting Mike's 'overwhelmingly convincing' alternative explanation for PI being incorporated into the GP. I am glad to see, Mike, that you didn't fall for the 'Roller Ruler' theory.
And do you, Dave, accept Rohl’s evidence and chronology uncritically? If yes, why? If not, what parts of it do you reject and why? Your claims are the extraordinary ones and despite what you might think, Rohl is not a ‘get out of jail free’ card for Smyth’s ideas about the Great Pyramid. Even the extreme revision of 350 years proposed by Rohl is not enough to rescue Smyth. Nor does Rohl offer any succour for YEC Biblical literalists, proffering no support that I can see for a <10,000 year-old Earth. Furthermore, Rohl’s conclusions are considered doubtful by several critics, for example Walter Mattfield here (links provided to other critics), and Dennis Forbes and, to a lesser extent, Aidan Dodson here (Dodson is mostly concerned with reviewing Peter James’ Centuries of Darkness, which also argues for a revision of the Dynastic Egyptian chronology). You might want to consider some of these before you hail Rohl’s work as conclusive.

As you are well aware, it was I who categorized Mike’s posts on pi and the GP as ‘overwhelmingly convincing.’ I would point out once again that your (and Smyth’s) argument is the extraordinary one and requires extraordinary evidence independent of the circular ones inherent in your postings about pi. Mike’s links lead you to reasoned explanations of how pi could be incorporated in the GP without resort to anachronistic invokings of ‘advanced scientific knowledge’. You need to explain how Smyth’s unsupported theory is more convincing than these considered arguments.

Finally, the idea I tried to explain to you about the implications of using cylindrical/circular measuring devices is another entirely rational explanation of how pi might appear ‘accidentally’ in the GP’s measurements. I still believe it is a valid idea, although after some further research I agreed with Mike that the evidence for its actual implementation is at the moment lacking.
I don't hail him as conclusive. I just find him fairly convincing and a lot of puzzle pieces fall into place with his New Chronology. How do you explain those bullet points from his book that I posted a while ago?
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:22 AM   #469
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OK, but for us who haven't followed you all over the Internet, would you be so kind as to repeat at least some of your best arguments in this thread?
If you really want to hear it all from me, start a new thread and invite me by PM. This thread is about Pyramids and Egyptology and how it reconciles with the Flood.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:27 AM   #470
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Originally Posted by afdave
The point remains though. I don't know how anyone can see ~1 mile of sedimentary rock complete with fossils all over the earth and NOT think Global Flood. Beats me!
Because the people who think otherwise are educated and scientifically literate.
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