Freethought & Rationalism Archive

dongiovanni1976x · 07-01-2006, 11:56 AM

In chapter 21 of his First Apology Justin Martyr (CE 100-165) writes:

Quote:

"And what of the emperors, whom you think it right to deify, and on whose behalf you produce someone who swears that he has seen the burning Caesar ascend to heaven from the funeral pyre?"

Can anyone tell me if there is any literary source for the claim Justin is making here? Do we have a record of this alledged witness making such an assertion. I do not doubt that it was made, I was just interested if we knew where Justin heard this from, if it was a known person or it was just a widely gossiped rumor...

Toto · 07-01-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

According to these witnesses, what happened is as follows: Romulus, after reigning as king for thirty-seven years, suddenly disappears during a gathering. At the same time there is a solar eclipse, accompanied by a violent thunderstorm. There is no trace of Romulus to be found. However, one morning he appears to his friend Julius Proculus, larger and more beautiful than in real life, armed with weapons shining like fire. Although in a state of shock, the friend manages to take in Romulus' last words and [146] instructions. The resurrected Romulus explains that he now dwells again in heaven, where he originally came from. Proculus reports his experience to the Roman people and vouches for the accuracy of his account with a solemn oath. The Romans even dealt with issues of piety and worship in legal terms!

This point takes on added importance here, because during the period of the emperors the Romulus legend became not only a memory, but also an archetype. It was followed as a pattern for the elevation of Roman rulers to the status of gods after their death. As early a writer as Horace stresses that Romulus and Augustus took the same route to heaven (see above). In particular, the assumption is made that the departed emperor has been removed from the earth, that is, has disappeared, like Romulus. One eye-witness has to testify under oath to the Senate that he saw the deceased rise to heaven from the funeral pyre. In a report on Augustus' funeral (14 C.E.) we read: "There even came forward a man of praetorian rank to testify on oath that he had observed the form of the cremated emperor rise to heaven."21 Certain traits from the Romulus legend thus served as a basis for the official deification of the Roman emperors.

[footnote 21: Suetonius, Augustus, 100:4; Justin's so-called First Apology (21:3) is also instructive; cf. E. Bickermann, Archiv für Religionswissenschaft, XXVI, 1929, 1 ff.).

From The Resurrection Stories, Johannes Leipoldt, Journal of Higher Criticism 4/2 (Fall, 1997), 138-149. Theologische Literaturzeitung 12 (1948), 740-742. Translated by Eric Weinberger.

dongiovanni1976x · 07-01-2006, 12:57 PM

Wow! Thank you. That was precisely what I was looking for. Thank you!

Roger Pearse · 07-01-2006, 01:47 PM

I suppose any survivors of the great families of the republic must have smiled wryly. No doubt Kim Il-Sung's funeral would also have displayed portents, if his son had wished it. The powerful autocrat may always do as he pleases.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

dog-on · 07-01-2006, 02:01 PM

Looks like a good source/precedent for death, resurrection, appearing to people afterwards, and accension.

In the search for the impetus of Chrstianity, instead of focusing on the Greeks/Hellenic Jews, maybe the focus should be on the Romans.

Toto · 07-01-2006, 07:04 PM

You know, FWIW, there is a painting in the rotunda of the Capitol in Washington DC by Constantino Brumidi showing George Washington ascending to heaven (apologies to our British friends.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...Washington.jpg

Dargo · 07-02-2006, 04:51 AM

In other words, Justin thought the idea of Caesar rising to heaven and allegedly verified by known witnesses was absurd but found the idea of some obscure dude rising from the dead and allegedly verified by unknown witnesses perfectly sensible. I've seen modern Christians, who believe in faith healings, laugh at ESP, so at least they've stayed consistant in this area.

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07-01-2006, 12:57 PM	#3
dongiovanni1976x Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: St Louis, MO Posts: 686	Wow! Thank you. That was precisely what I was looking for. Thank you!

07-01-2006, 01:47 PM	#4
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	I suppose any survivors of the great families of the republic must have smiled wryly. No doubt Kim Il-Sung's funeral would also have displayed portents, if his son had wished it. The powerful autocrat may always do as he pleases. All the best, Roger Pearse

07-01-2006, 02:01 PM	#5
dog-on Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,397	Looks like a good source/precedent for death, resurrection, appearing to people afterwards, and accension. In the search for the impetus of Chrstianity, instead of focusing on the Greeks/Hellenic Jews, maybe the focus should be on the Romans.

07-01-2006, 07:04 PM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	You know, FWIW, there is a painting in the rotunda of the Capitol in Washington DC by Constantino Brumidi showing George Washington ascending to heaven (apologies to our British friends.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...Washington.jpg

07-02-2006, 04:51 AM	#7
Dargo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 713	In other words, Justin thought the idea of Caesar rising to heaven and allegedly verified by known witnesses was absurd but found the idea of some obscure dude rising from the dead and allegedly verified by unknown witnesses perfectly sensible. I've seen modern Christians, who believe in faith healings, laugh at ESP, so at least they've stayed consistant in this area.

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