Freethought & Rationalism Archive

pairadocs · 08-26-2005, 06:18 PM

I read here, some months ago, the suggestion that the infamous verses in 1 Corinthians stemmed from midrash. Specifically, the superstition that male angels were coming down to earth to impregnate human females. Thus women are told to cover their heads so we don't tempt the angels.

I can't now find the thread where it was discussed or any other sources for it but I'm fascinated to find out more. Can anyone help me out?

Thanks!

Toto · 08-26-2005, 06:28 PM

1 corinthians woman wearing veils when praying

Check the article referenced on page 2

pairadocs · 08-26-2005, 06:29 PM

Yeahhhhhhhhhh. Thanks!

Chris Weimer · 08-26-2005, 06:41 PM

Also check out "Paul and Qumran" which deals specifically with that issue.

pairadocs · 08-26-2005, 06:52 PM

On second thought, damn. That wasn't the specific explanation I was looking for (although it was FAScinating). I think what I'm looking for is information about Enoch's angels? Possibly?

John Kesler · 08-26-2005, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pairadocs

On second thought, damn. That wasn't the specific explanation I was looking for (although it was FAScinating). I think what I'm looking for is information about Enoch's angels? Possibly?

The myth of angels having sexual relations with female women is found in Genesis 6:1-4:

Quote:

Genesis 6:1-4 (NRSV)
When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. 3 Then Yahweh said, "My spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh; their days shall be one hundred twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

1 Enoch elaborates on the pericope:

Quote:

1 Enoch 6:1-3a; 19:1(SOURCE)
1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children.'

1 And Uriel said to me: 'Here shall stand the angels who have connected themselves with women, and their spirits assuming many different forms are defiling mankind and shall lead them astray into sacrificing to demons as gods, (here shall they stand,) till the day of the great judgement in

(See also Jubilees 5.)

NT books Jude and 2 Peter also refer to the myth:

Quote:

Jude 6 (NRSV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their own position, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains in deepest darkness for the judgment of the great day.

Quote:

2 Peter 2:4 (NRSV)
4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgment;

With this background considered, I find it quite probable that Paul's admonition in 1 Corinthians 11:10 refers to actual angels.

Toto · 08-26-2005, 11:51 PM

Try I Cor 11:2-16 an interpolation? It's hard to believe Paul wrote it

Chris W: is this what you refer to ? Paul and Qumran by NT Wright

sorompio · 08-27-2005, 08:16 AM

You can find a complete description of this superstition in Robert Graves' "Count Belisarius".

Chris Weimer · 08-31-2005, 03:32 PM

Sorry Toto, that's not the right book. I'm actually referencing Paul and Qumran: Studies in New Testament Exegesis

Clivedurdle · 09-01-2005, 04:28 AM

Article about Troy Martin thesis here

08-26-2005, 06:18 PM	#1
pairadocs Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Feminist Conspiracy Posts: 358	Women covering their hair so as not to tempt the angels? I read here, some months ago, the suggestion that the infamous verses in 1 Corinthians stemmed from midrash. Specifically, the superstition that male angels were coming down to earth to impregnate human females. Thus women are told to cover their heads so we don't tempt the angels. I can't now find the thread where it was discussed or any other sources for it but I'm fascinated to find out more. Can anyone help me out? Thanks!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-26-2005, 06:28 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	1 corinthians woman wearing veils when praying Check the article referenced on page 2

08-26-2005, 06:29 PM	#3
pairadocs Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Feminist Conspiracy Posts: 358	Yeahhhhhhhhhh. Thanks!

08-26-2005, 06:41 PM	#4
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Also check out "Paul and Qumran" which deals specifically with that issue.

08-26-2005, 06:52 PM	#5
pairadocs Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Feminist Conspiracy Posts: 358	On second thought, damn. That wasn't the specific explanation I was looking for (although it was FAScinating). I think what I'm looking for is information about Enoch's angels? Possibly?

08-26-2005, 11:51 PM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Try I Cor 11:2-16 an interpolation? It's hard to believe Paul wrote it Chris W: is this what you refer to ? Paul and Qumran by NT Wright

08-27-2005, 08:16 AM	#8
sorompio Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Spain Posts: 58	You can find a complete description of this superstition in Robert Graves' "Count Belisarius".

08-31-2005, 03:32 PM	#9
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Sorry Toto, that's not the right book. I'm actually referencing Paul and Qumran: Studies in New Testament Exegesis

09-01-2005, 04:28 AM	#10
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Article about Troy Martin thesis here

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.