FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-16-2003, 09:40 AM   #41
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Llyricist
It is my understanding that the term Elohim is itself a plural form.
Yes, and used throughout much of the Hebrew bible as a reference to a single god... with a singular verb.

Quote:
No it is not, it crops up again in Genesis 11:7
OK, twice. Yours was a better search.


spin
spin is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 10:19 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: voston
Posts: 699
Default IF MAN WAS "MADE" IN THE "IMAGE" OF GOD, WHAT WAS GOD'S IMAGE?

IF MAN WAS "MADE" IN THE "IMAGE" OF GOD, WHAT WAS GOD'S IMAGE?
beanpie is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 10:35 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: voston
Posts: 699
Default " spiritual imagE "

Quote:
spiritual image
In any dctionary, "image" is described as "physical" FIRST. THESE VERSES DO NOT MENTIOON "SPIRITUAL".

This is only a pre-conceived notion .
beanpie is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 03:14 PM   #44
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default Re: IF MAN WAS "MADE" IN THE "IMAGE" OF GOD, WHAT WAS GOD'S IMAGE?

Quote:
Originally posted by beanpie
IF MAN WAS "MADE" IN THE "IMAGE" OF GOD, WHAT WAS GOD'S IMAGE?
Good, true, noble, wise, humane, altrusitic, etc.


spin
spin is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 03:16 PM   #45
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default Re: " spiritual image "

Quote:
Originally posted by beanpie
In any dctionary, "image" is described as "physical" FIRST. THESE VERSES DO NOT MENTIOON "SPIRITUAL".

This is only a pre-conceived notion .
"He's the image of a model citizen."


spin
spin is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 03:27 PM   #46
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Madison WI USA
Posts: 3,508
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Magus55
What are you referring to by "court"? The angels? If you are, you are wrong since the angels don't have the power to create, and humans aren't created in their image.
I don't think this has been pointed out to Magus yet. Magus, the court IS other gods, as Psalm 82 makes quite clear:

Quote:
Psalm 82:1 "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods"
Magus, please don't try to claim that "the whole OT" is all about monotheism and one God. It isn't. That Psalm quite explicitly has the Hebrew god El presiding over a council of gods. Deal with it.
Gooch's dad is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 04:23 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: voston
Posts: 699
Default The Supreme Being

GOD, n.

1. The Supreme Being


Webster Dictionary, 1913

Supreme

1. Highest in authority; holding the highest place in authority, government, or power.

He that is the supreme King of kings. Shak.
2. Highest; greatest; most excellent or most extreme; utmost; greatist possible (sometimes in a bad sense); as, supreme love; supreme glory; supreme magnanimity; supreme folly.

Each would be supreme within its own sphere, and those spheres could not but clash. De Quincey.
3. (Bot.) Situated at the highest part or point.
__________________________________________________ __Being

noun: a living thing that has (or can develop) the ability to act or function independently
beanpie is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 05:26 PM   #48
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,794
Default

Beanpie:

Just an "FYI."

"God" is the English translation of two words in the Hebrew--"El" and "Elohim"--and variations involving those words. "El" is/was a Canaanite deity and his connection to what, for want of a better term, the Hebrews worshipped fuels graduate programs to this day. "Elohim" is plural, but the "E" writer and the "P" writer both use the term in to represent "god." In a way "they" connect the term to another name--YHWH. In some contexts, the text preserves the "plural" form/conception--Hebrew has no "royal we." However, it seems the E and P writers were monotheistic in at least the sense that "their god" was better than "everyone else's god."

"Lord" is used for YHWH--the infamous tetragrammaton--"I Am What I Am/That Which Makes Itself." YHWH was a separate god as others have indicated above. He probably had a consort. The inscription refer'd to above by Jackalope is a bit "problematic" because it may not be connected to the depiction. The depiction is of two "Bes" figures--not really a man and woman--so they may not be "YHWH and Mrs. YWHW." Also "his asherah" may refer more to the symbol rather than a goddess. In other words it is not clear, but it seems to me that evidence suggests a god and goddess were at one time worshipped.

According to Frank Cross in The Canaanite Myth and the Hebrew Epic, YHWH was a verb attached to El to give something like "god who makes the" and insert your object--mountains, "heavenly hosts," et cetera. When YHWH separates into a figure is unknown to me. It is possible that Ba'al--which means "Lord"--and YHWH were the same figure or influenced one way or the other.

--J.D.

[Edited to remove confusing scribal errors.--Ed.]
Doctor X is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 06:48 PM   #49
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Silicon Valley, Calif., USA
Posts: 2,270
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor X
"Elohim" is plural, but the "E" writer and the "P" writer both use the term in to represent "god."
... which sounds like awfully strong linguistic evidence that the ancient Hebrews had, at one time in the ancient pre-Old-Testament past, been polytheistic.
tracer is offline  
Old 12-16-2003, 07:01 PM   #50
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,794
Default

Tracer:

Indeed and absolutely. How much is hard to tell now. I have a book which is TEDIOUS in its completeness, Gods, Goddesses, and Images of God in Ancient Israel but demonstrates many different depictions of deities, though it does not have the coin of YHWH in one of the essays in the very good book The Triumph of Elohim: From Yahwisms to Judaisms.

It is clear that Judea was not "isolated" from other cultures.

--J.D.
Doctor X is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:07 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.