Steven Carr

Really? Papers are judged on the authors name, rather than their arguments? You have to be a 'reputable' scholar, before people will even give your ideas a hearing?

As you point out, the arguments have not been accepted, and Kim does seem to be a shadowy figure.

Belonging to a Korean organisation whose President is in a small church in Duesseldorf, Germany, is not a prestigious university or seminary.

Was it implied that Biblica was somehow obscure and of little worth? Who implied that?

Anyway the main point is that this redating has not been accepted.

Haran

I'm getting bored with your word games, Steven. Stick to the facts.

If Kim had been a nobody without credentials of some sort or with improper credentials, then his article would probably not have been published in a major journal.

I did not point out that Kim seems to be a shadowy figure. He is a person with apparently little web presence, for those who seem to think that everything is on the web.

I do not know this information. Can you prove this is the person who wrote the article?

It is no wonder that Montgomery told you to do your own research.

The main point for you seems to always be only those things that appear to you to go against Christianity, Steven.

You're about that close to going on my ignore list.

Steven Carr

Astonishing! Layman posts something saying that Kim was not obscure or shadowy at all, look, he is part of this Korean organisation, and Haran castigates ME for not proving that this is the same Kim!

Does Haran think Layman just made up the claim that this was the same Kim?

This information came from Layman, so it is he who you should accuse of sloppy research, if you doubt the truth of what he posted.

I do not know if it is the same Kim, although I trust Layman on this.

So Haran makes accusations, I ask him for references, and he starts saying 'Word games'......

HARAN
If Kim had been a nobody without credentials of some sort or with improper credentials, then his article would probably not have been published in a major journal.

CARR
I imagine if these rules of Biblical journals had been applied in science, a certain Swiss patent clerk might have struggled to get his unfootnoted, unreferenced paper on the Electrodynamics of Moving Objects published.....

But I think Biblical journals also look more at arguments than credentials when deciding on publishing.

Haran

I did not "castigate" you for this, Steven. I was asking you to prove it to me. I missed layman presenting this information and thought you had presented it. Regardless of who presented it, I would like to know for sure if this is who wrote it.

I'm sure you do... You trust him just like you trust him on most other issues.

Rhetoric, Carr. Even here you are twisting things. How could I provide you with references for non-scholars or people without credentials who have not been published even though they might have had a good idea?? Why don't you get some of your website stuff published in some of these journals then? It's reputable, right? Go ahead...

You're only right if you think like Carr...
:banghead:

I see no point in debating you anymore. I do not see that you look for truth but only for something with which to accuse or debase those who disagree with you. Lose the chip on your shoulder...

Steven Carr

Ask Layman for proof. He will gladly supply you with the evidence you want.

Interesting that you never asked for proof when Layman put it up earlier in the thread, but as soon as you thought *I* had done so, then demands for proof came.

Doesn't Biblica publish the credentials of its contributors? Would they not be on the original paper?


HARAN
Rhetoric, Carr. Even here you are twisting things. How could I provide you with references for non-scholars or people without credentials who have not been published even though they might have had a good idea??

CARR
Let us follow the thread here.

Haran had written 'It was implied in those other threads that this journal, where Kim presented his work on p46, was somehow obscure and of little worth.'

CARR
I asked Haran if he knew who had been implying that Biblica was somehow obscure.

Haran did not answer my request for references and said I was playing word games.

Now he is saying that when I asked him for references to people who said that Biblica was somehow obscure, he makes the absurd claim that I was 'for non-scholars or people without credentials who have not been published even though they might have had a good idea??'

Little wonder Haran finds it hard to debate me. He fails to read what I write.

Doctor X

Methinks consideration of movement into respective neutral corners for a moment may alleviate some of the inflammation. . . .

--J.D.

Haran

Isn't it interesting?? I'm just really biased, you know? A liar too. I would never simply miss some posts.

The point was to ask where this information had come from. I had not seen it before. Why exactly does the information make him obscure anyway? Perhaps I should have asked you for clarification on that. Does it really matter to you though? After all, you've had the chance to say that "the main point is that this redating has not been accepted." Discussion should be over for you... Oh yeah, you just want to try to make people look bad...

Layman

Carr is up to his usual tricks Haran.

"mydreamwiz.com" is NOT the website for the university. It's a website to what appears to be a Korean outreach effort in Europe.

And why he expects a Korean Presbyterian Church in Germany to have a huge membership role is beyond me.

Steven Carr

It was the website that YOU gave. You did not give the web site of the University. *I* did.

Now layman is implying *I* am trying to deny the website for the University when *I*, not he, was the one who publicised the university web site , and *I*, not he, was the one who clarified that it was the web site of the university.


These are my old tricks, it seems, giving the real web site of the university, explaining that it WAS the real web site of the university, and correcting anybody who was under the impression that the website *Layman* gave was that of the university.

Layman had written

LAYMAN IN A PREVIOUS POST
'Apparently, he is a Korean scholar who as of 2000 was a member of the Korean Institute for Theology in Europe and a Professor of Systemic Theology at the Anyang Graduate School of Theology.

http://my.dreamwiz.com/tulip7/index-eng.html'

CARR NOW

As people might have thought that Laymans' website referred to the last thing Layman had referenced, I informed readers that dreamwiz was hardly the address of the university, and then told them what the university web site was.

Therfore I wrote :-

CARR PREVIOUS POST
'http://www.anyang.ac.kr/a.ueng/htm/stage_history.htm has a history of this University.

Which prestigious universities have web sites beginning mydreamwiz.com ?'

CARR NOW

It was Layman, who might have accidentally left readers with the impression that this small university had a dreamwiz account.

I made sure that MY readers knew which address was which.

But Layman wants, for his own reasons, to say that when I say This URL 'A' is the website of a university. The website is hardly likely to be dreamwiz.', that somehow I was telling readers that dreamwiz WAS the website, when I had EXPLICITLY ONE SENTENCE BEFORE told everybody what the real site was.


Hardly pulling the wool over people's eyes, was it Layman, when I told them what the real university web site was, and pointed out that YOUR quoted web site was NOT the university web site.

I clarify what Layman wrote , out of a spirit of helpfulness, and I get my face bitten off......

I don't. But it was you who said Kim was not hard to find or obscure, when he appears to belong to this small organisation whose President is in a Korean church in Duesseldorf.

Actually, I thought there might be a nice human interest story in why Kim had chosen not to publish any more academically (as it seems, to my knowledge, he has so chosen). People do choose not to pursue an academic career, and I was curious why he had 'dropped out' so to speak.

Steven Carr

There weren't so many posts in the thread. I'm surprised you missed such an informative post by Layman. Oh well, these things happen. We all miss things from time to time.

We know Layman has read your post, so he will very, very soon tell you where he got this information from, and your suspense will soon be over.



Layman himself says it is a small organisation - the Korinth one.

And while I am sure that Anyang Graduate School of Theology is a fine organisation, I, speaking purely personally, could not have named the Professor of Systemic Theology there even if I had had three guesses.


(Actually, I could. Just say 'Kim' in Korea, and the chances are high you will have the correct name :-)