andrewcriddle

In a previous thread Mithraism Not an influence on Christianity there was a discussion of the tantalising inscription from the Santa Prisca Mithraeum rendered by Vermaseren
et nos servasti eternali sanguine fuso.
You saved us by shedding the eternal blood

It was noted on the basis of work by S Panciera published in 1979 that eternali/eternal is highly uncertain.

I'm currently looking at the article by Panciera Il materiale epigrafico dallo scavo del mitreo di S. Stefano Rotondo pps 87-126 of Mysteria Mithrae (conference 1978 published 1979). This has a long footnote about the Santa Prisca inscription pps 103-105 with illustrations at the end of the article.

My Italian is weak and I'm having some difficulty with the article but Panciera seems to be saying that everything in this line before sanguine fuso/by shedding the...blood is basically guesswork. IE not only is eternal dubious but so is you saved us.

Andrew Criddle

Roger Pearse

My Italian is almost entirely dependent on Google translate, doing it word by word, but I'll have a go if you like to send me some of the stuff. "You saved us" -- Is that not actually there, then?

Toto

We have some posters here who are at least somewhat fluent in Italian, including spin.

andrewcriddle

After commenting on the very dubious status of eternali Panciera continues Panciera then comments on the impossibility of deciphering anything preceding the putative SERVASTI.

Andrew Criddle

Roger Pearse

Running Google translate:

similmente non appare convincente, se confrontato con quanto oggi rimane (ma si veda anche il facsimile del Vermaseren) la lettura "SERVASTI" con "RVA" in nesso;

similarly not convincing when compared with what remains today (but see also the facsimile of Vermaseren) reading "SERVASTI" with "RVA" in relation to them;

gia la "E" non e del tutto sicura, potendosi trattare anche di una "F";

already the "E" is not entirely sure, being able to treat an "F";

della lettera seguente che e stata interpretata come "R" e nelle foto sembrerebbe una "O",

the following letter which was interpreted as "R" and the pictures seem to be a "O"

nulla si vede sulla parete che in questo punto manca

anything you see on the wall at this point is missing

(e sembrerebbe mancasse anche in passato) dell'intonaco;

(And would seem to be missing in the past) the plaster;

a parte cio non mi e chiaro come ai segni che seguono

Apart from that I am not clear as to the signs that follow

(che potrebbero ben far parte di un gruppo "VA")

(Which could well be part of a group "VA")

si possa far seguire una "S",

can be made to follow an "S"

sembrando piuttosto i resti della lettera appartenere ad una "N",

seem rather to belong to the remains of the letter "N"

anch'essa in nesso

also in connection

andrewcriddle

Courtesy of Ralph Hancock from the Classics list we have:

Andrew Criddle

Roger Pearse

Thank you Andrew.

This is where a good photograph would be infinitely valuable. I had no idea that SERVASTI was a reconstruction.

What is the reference in Vermaseren? I wish I had his Corpus in PDF form.

I find the whole inscription in the Clauss-Slaby database as follows:

Publication: SPrisca p 187 = AE 1941, 00076 = AE 1946, 00083ee = AE 1946, 00084 = AE 1946, +00117 = AE 1960, 00211

Province: Roma Place: Roma

Fecunda tellus cuncta qua generat Pales / quos tu [3] tibi / unde omn[3] laetas [3] a[3] amant sua / fons concluse petris qui geminos aluisti nectare fratres / semper siti[3] / edi[3]em[3]sum[1]i[3] / hunc quem aur[ei]s humeris portavit more iuvencum / [6] / atque perlata humeris t(u)li m(a)xima divum / dulc(i)a sunt fi(cata) avium (s)ed cura gubernat / pi(e) r(e)b(u)s renatum dulcibus atque creatum / nubila per ritum ducatis tempora cuncti / primus et hic aries astrictius ordine currit / et nos servasti (a)eternali sanguine fuso / [of]fero ut [3]a[3] numina magna Mithr(a)e / accipe thuricremos pater accipe sancte leones / per quos thuradamus per quos consumimur ipsi / nama leonibus novis et multis annis / h[3]su[1] nemin[i 3]fero [3 mort]alium omnium / (a)et[er]norumque omnium / [3]icit[3]ucta reddite cantu

I don't know what all those '3's are, tho.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Roger Pearse

Primus et hic aries astrictius ordine currit;
Et nos servasti eternali sanguine fuso;
Offero ut fiant numina magna Mithre.

andrewcriddle

Hi Roger

Thanks for this.

What is the status of this picture ? ie is it an actual photograph or is it a facsimile ?

Andrew Criddle

Voice of reason

I tried an Italian to English translator and it failed. This is what came out in Latin to English translator.

Chief and this aries astrictius ordinem curritEt ; we being saved eternal what blood fusoOffero ; when fiant numina magna Mithre

That is from this: Primus et hic aries astrictius ordine currit;
Et nos servasti eternali sanguine fuso;
Offero ut fiant numina magna Mithre