Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 11-03-2003, 02:32 PM

The Volatile Notion of a Married Jesus

This show explores the ideas behind the popular thriller The Da Vinci Code, with an interesting line up of commentators -

Quote:

Mr. Brown, whose novel is simply called a book in the voiceover and who is treated as a historian; Umberto Eco, the Italian semiotician and novelist; Elaine Pagels, the Princeton professor of religion; Karen King, a professor at the Harvard Divinity School; Robin Griffith-Jones, an Anglican rector in London; Margaret Starbird, an independent scholar; and Daryl Bock and Jeff Bingham, two Evangelical scholars in Dallas.

I decided I needed to relax with some trash reading recently and I picked this up at Costco. I'm half way through and not sure if I even want to finish it. As a thriller it is not very thrilling. The plot is extremely contrived, and the characterization simplistic. From the writing I gather that the author wanted to make the translation to a screen play as easy as possible.

It is easy to find errors in the book, even without any great knowledge of the subject matter.

In short, I don't recommend it very highly.

In regard to the ABC special,

Quote:

Its logic is of an especially enervating kind. Like a seatmate on a train who voices ardent ideas about Procter & Gamble's satanism, the ABC special is both amusingly audacious and profoundly irritating. If you're not freshly familiar with the invariably eclectic materials under discussion, you can express only general skepticism, which makes you a sucker. You're suddenly in the camp of the uptight "orthodox," those joyless suppressors of truth who enjoy none of the pleasures of heresy. The more attractive option may be to keep quiet.

On the other hand, many theories advanced in the ABC special are not ultimately endorsed by it. ("Not all the claims made in the book are true, and some have been made before, but there is some surprising truth," is how Ms. Vargas puts it.) Early in the show, too, Ms. Vargas asks a series of questions that begin with, "What if we told you," which suggests that the ideas that follow are being proposed so that viewers might entertain them as beliefs � and thus be entertained, while not informed. This is a curious approach for network news.

Javaman · 11-03-2003, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
I decided I needed to relax with some trash reading recently and I picked this up at Costco. I'm half way through and not sure if I even want to finish it.

The very devout woman in my office keeps telling me I have to read it. She knows my tastes and my lack of beliefs and is cool with them. I'm not sure how to read her in regards this book. Does she want me to read it 'cause I'll like it or is there some attempt to get me to see the light? I gave our office pagan a copy of "Towing Jehova" and he passed it on to her. Maybe this is a way to get back at me?

Thanks for the info... I hadn't made up my mind on whether to devote time to it or not. I'm still not sure.

Kosh · 11-03-2003, 02:44 PM

Well, it'll probably be a good diversion from what's sure to be a very painful Monday Night Football with the Bronco's third string starting....

Toto · 11-03-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Javaman
The very devout woman in my office keeps telling me I have to read it. She knows my tastes and my lack of beliefs and is cool with them. I'm not sure how to read her in regards this book. Does she want me to read it 'cause I'll like it or is there some attempt to get me to see the light? . . .

She might think that it's better for you to believe in some wacky goddess-friendly pseudo-freemason version of Christianity than to be a <shudder> nonbeliever.

Javaman · 11-03-2003, 03:11 PM

One of these days I'll start a thread about why its more comforting to a believer that someone believe in something diametrically opposed to their beliefs than to have none at all.

Tellurian · 11-03-2003, 04:11 PM

The version of the story I would like to see is the one from the Talmud and the writings of Celsus where Miriam (Mary) is identified as the wife of a carpenter who was thrown out of her home because she had become pregnant by the Roman soldier Pantera. In that version she becomes a woman's hairdresser which is where the name magdalene comes from because it means hairdresser.

Mary gives birth to Pantera's son and names him Yeshu (Jesus). When the gospels are written Mary Magdalene is made into a separate person from Mary mother of Jesus because the writers did not want the mother of Jesus to be identified as an unfaithful wife.

Of course, no network or cable channel would dare to air that version.

offa · 11-03-2003, 06:15 PM

Mary Magdalene gave birth to a daughter shortly after the
crucifixion. Her name became Phoebe. St. Paul took her as his spouse.
Mary Magdalene was Jesus' (1/2) aunt. She was the Virgin's younger 1/2
sister and she was still older than Jesus.
Jesus was the son of Cleophas and he had at least six full
blooded kindred.

thanks,
offa

Kosh · 11-03-2003, 06:34 PM

Does it never stop?

Yahzi · 11-03-2003, 07:23 PM

Dammit, I thought they had proven that Mary Magdalene was actually Jesus' cross-dressing alternate personality, which is why you never saw the two of them together in public.

I guess I just can't keep up with the pace of Biblical scholarship.

SLD · 11-03-2003, 08:23 PM

Well, Yahzi, I like your version best of all. But all this discussion does lead me to a simple question to the Christians among us:

1) If Jesus was a God who came down here to "live and die as one of us", then:

a) He had lustful thoughts about women.
b) He wanted to fuck their brains out, just like us mere
mortal men do.
c) He would have to actually experience sex to really live
like we do (i.e. with a woman)
d) But supposedly he never sinned.

But if he didn't sin, than he didn't really live like us then did he? He didn't really experience the full sense of being a human. No guilt, no lust, no whacking off, no late night visits to the local brothel to satiate his needs. How the hell can he claim to be at all human if he didn't have those desires and try to act on them?

SLD

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11-03-2003, 02:44 PM	#3
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	Well, it'll probably be a good diversion from what's sure to be a very painful Monday Night Football with the Bronco's third string starting....

11-03-2003, 03:11 PM	#5
Javaman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,708	One of these days I'll start a thread about why its more comforting to a believer that someone believe in something diametrically opposed to their beliefs than to have none at all.

11-03-2003, 04:11 PM	#6
Tellurian Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: California Posts: 93	The version of the story I would like to see is the one from the Talmud and the writings of Celsus where Miriam (Mary) is identified as the wife of a carpenter who was thrown out of her home because she had become pregnant by the Roman soldier Pantera. In that version she becomes a woman's hairdresser which is where the name magdalene comes from because it means hairdresser. Mary gives birth to Pantera's son and names him Yeshu (Jesus). When the gospels are written Mary Magdalene is made into a separate person from Mary mother of Jesus because the writers did not want the mother of Jesus to be identified as an unfaithful wife. Of course, no network or cable channel would dare to air that version.

11-03-2003, 06:15 PM	#7
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	Mary Magdalene gave birth to a daughter shortly after the crucifixion. Her name became Phoebe. St. Paul took her as his spouse. Mary Magdalene was Jesus' (1/2) aunt. She was the Virgin's younger 1/2 sister and she was still older than Jesus. Jesus was the son of Cleophas and he had at least six full blooded kindred. thanks, offa

11-03-2003, 06:34 PM	#8
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	Does it never stop?

11-03-2003, 07:23 PM	#9
Yahzi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Worshipping at Greyline's feet Posts: 7,438	Dammit, I thought they had proven that Mary Magdalene was actually Jesus' cross-dressing alternate personality, which is why you never saw the two of them together in public. I guess I just can't keep up with the pace of Biblical scholarship.

11-03-2003, 08:23 PM	#10
SLD Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 4,109	Well, Yahzi, I like your version best of all. But all this discussion does lead me to a simple question to the Christians among us: 1) If Jesus was a God who came down here to "live and die as one of us", then: a) He had lustful thoughts about women. b) He wanted to fuck their brains out, just like us mere mortal men do. c) He would have to actually experience sex to really live like we do (i.e. with a woman) d) But supposedly he never sinned. But if he didn't sin, than he didn't really live like us then did he? He didn't really experience the full sense of being a human. No guilt, no lust, no whacking off, no late night visits to the local brothel to satiate his needs. How the hell can he claim to be at all human if he didn't have those desires and try to act on them? SLD

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