Freethought & Rationalism Archive

3DChizl · 11-29-2001, 09:09 AM

I'm having fun with this at SAB

Christmas tradition is so much fun to talk about! Just bring up the <a href="http://www.tartans.com/articles/celtchristmas.html" target="_blank">pagan</a> roots of the season to just about any christian and when they bitch at you, hit them with Jer. 10:3,4!

edit to add passages in question:
10:2
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

10:3
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

10:4
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: 3DChizl ]

Toto · 11-29-2001, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Jeremiah 10
1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel.
2 This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good."

Kosh · 11-29-2001, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 3DChizl:
I'm having fun with this at SAB

Christmas tradition is so much fun to talk about! Just bring up the <a href="http://www.tartans.com/articles/celtchristmas.html" target="_blank">pagan</a> roots of the season to just about any christian and when they bitch at you, hit them with Jer. 10:3,4!

edit to add passages in question:
10:2
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

10:3
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

10:4
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: 3DChizl ]

Wait, isn't that just a prophecy about Jesus?

3DChizl · 11-29-2001, 03:32 PM

Kosh:

Quote:

Wait, isn't that just a prophecy about Jesus?

Me:
What the hell?

Kosh · 11-29-2001, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 3DChizl:
Kosh:
Me:
What the hell?

Just making fun of the Xians tendancy to interpolate things as symbolic prophecies
of Jesus.

Tree = Cross
Nails = obvious.

3DChizl · 11-29-2001, 05:51 PM

Sorry, didn't get that.

Duck! · 12-01-2001, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 3DChizl:
I'm having fun with this at SAB

Christmas tradition is so much fun to talk about! Just bring up the <a href="http://www.tartans.com/articles/celtchristmas.html" target="_blank">pagan</a> roots of the season to just about any christian and when they bitch at you, hit them with Jer. 10:3,4!

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: 3DChizl ]

[nitpick]That site says that the Celtic festival of Samhain (Hallowe'en) is pronounced Sha-Von. That is hopeless incorrect - it is pronounced Sowen (the first syllable rhymes with how).[/nitpick]

Duck!

CX · 12-05-2001, 08:07 AM

This has as much to do with Xmas as the virgin prophecy in Isaiah has to do with Jesus. Which is to say nothing. This passage is nto talking about Xmas trees of ancient pagans but of idol worship. That's why it mentions the carving. Pagans carved idols out of wood and then covered them with gold or silver. I mean hey I enjoy explaining the Xmas traditions as pagan as much as the next guy, but let's not throw in stuff that's just plain wrong.

3DChizl · 12-05-2001, 12:54 PM

OK Cowboy, go check out what the christians say!!
<a href="http://www.eliyah.com/paganexp.html" target="_blank">No Trees page</a>

Christians, mind you, christians.

CX · 12-05-2001, 01:10 PM

I'm well aware what some Xians say. My point is they are just as wrong about this as they are about Isaiah 7:14 being a prophecy about Jesus. The tree thing is just silly. Pagan pantheistic nature cults did decorate trees and the tradition of decorating a Xmas is a syncretistic combination, but there is no biblical injunction against it specifically. And certainly not in the Old Testament since the tree decorating tradition is germanic, and therefore no point of contact with Judaism and at least a millenium after the writing of most of the Hebrew scriptures. By the time missionaries came in contact with germanic tribes Xianity had already been around for centuries.

11-29-2001, 09:09 AM	#1
3DChizl Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	Why I love Xmas I'm having fun with this at SAB Christmas tradition is so much fun to talk about! Just bring up the <a href="http://www.tartans.com/articles/celtchristmas.html" target="_blank">pagan</a> roots of the season to just about any christian and when they bitch at you, hit them with Jer. 10:3,4! edit to add passages in question: 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. [ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: 3DChizl ]</p>

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11-29-2001, 05:51 PM	#6
3DChizl Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	Sorry, didn't get that.

12-05-2001, 08:07 AM	#8
CX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portlandish Posts: 2,829	This has as much to do with Xmas as the virgin prophecy in Isaiah has to do with Jesus. Which is to say nothing. This passage is nto talking about Xmas trees of ancient pagans but of idol worship. That's why it mentions the carving. Pagans carved idols out of wood and then covered them with gold or silver. I mean hey I enjoy explaining the Xmas traditions as pagan as much as the next guy, but let's not throw in stuff that's just plain wrong.

12-05-2001, 12:54 PM	#9
3DChizl Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	OK Cowboy, go check out what the christians say!! <a href="http://www.eliyah.com/paganexp.html" target="_blank">No Trees page</a> Christians, mind you, christians.

12-05-2001, 01:10 PM	#10
CX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portlandish Posts: 2,829	I'm well aware what some Xians say. My point is they are just as wrong about this as they are about Isaiah 7:14 being a prophecy about Jesus. The tree thing is just silly. Pagan pantheistic nature cults did decorate trees and the tradition of decorating a Xmas is a syncretistic combination, but there is no biblical injunction against it specifically. And certainly not in the Old Testament since the tree decorating tradition is germanic, and therefore no point of contact with Judaism and at least a millenium after the writing of most of the Hebrew scriptures. By the time missionaries came in contact with germanic tribes Xianity had already been around for centuries.

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