I have heard many people claim that the commandment regarding killing is best translated as

"Thou shalt not murder."

Other people have told me it is best translated as

"Thou shalt not kill."

Now, it seems to me that "Thou shalt not murder" is redundant, as murder is simply illegal killing. It's as if to say, thou shalt not do an illegal killing.

Does anybody know the original word?

Also, what is the best reference for dealing with these kinds of questions regarding translations?

"Lo Tirtsah"

ìÉà úÄøÀöÇç (Hebrew-Windows encoding)

= "Thou shalt not murder".

Whereas "thou shalt not kill" would be "lo taharog". Killing accidently or in self-defence is permissible. Killing deliberately, which is murder, is prohibited.

If you've got any question regarding the Hebrew scriptures, then I'm the one to ask. I read the Hebrew Bible as you read Shakespeare.

Shlomi Tal aka devnet.

[This message has been edited by devnet (edited April 09, 2001).]

It's useful to recall the above Commandment whenever bible-thumpers contrast the alleged "sit-chuh-AY-shun'l ethics" of secularists (boo!) with their "Godly morality" (yay!).

The situation is precisely what distinguishes a justifiable killing from a murder -- and God himself acknowledges the difference.

devnet: then can you join us on the 'rape' thread?

I think it is more important to remember who that commandment was directed to. The OT or the Torah is exclusively Jewish. The commandment to not murder or kill only applies to Jews. Since Jews did not regard non Jews as human any killing was justified. For example gentiles were commonly referred to as "dogs".

Right you are, Idaho. Hence the danger of religious Jewish nationalism in the Arab-Israeli conflict. More on that in my article "The Genealogical Saga of Judaism" (Library -> Modern -> Theism -> Judaism).

http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/home.html

(oh, that might be confusing. The article is here on Infidels.Org. The link above is my homepage).

[This message has been edited by devnet (edited April 10, 2001).]

Dvenet,

Question. Is this phrase used the three times that the Ten Commandments are posted. The exactly verses and books escape me at the moment. If I remember correctly, they are first given in Exodus and then repeated in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. (I maybe wrong on that as I don't have a Bible in front of me.) And if I remember correctly, there are subtle differences between the versions of the commandments. So my question is the above specific phrase used all three times?

Spider,

The commandments are repeated in Deuteronomy 5. "Lo tirtsah" appears there exactly as in Exodus 20.

"Thou shalt not murder." is the proper translation.

I do not understadn why xtians give a fuck about the commandment not to "kill" since it is part of the "law" which was "nailed to the cross" anyways...

Shalom