From Christianity Before Christ by John G. Jackson, American Atheist Press, PO Box 2117, Austin, TX 78768-2117, 1985, pp. 43-46.

Quick Book Report: Various myths are shown to be forerunners of the Jesus myth.

Included is the Babylonian myth of Bel (Baal in Hebrew) deciphered from an ancient Babylonian tablet dating back to circa 2000 BC now in the British Museum and describing a passion play in which (1) Bel is taken prisoner; (2) Bel is tried in a great hall; (3) Bel is smitten; (4) Bel is led away to the Mount (a sacred grove on a hilltop); (5) with Bel are taken two malefactors, one of whom is released; (6) After Bel has gone to the Mount and is executed, the city breaks into tumult; (7) Bel's clothes are carried away; (8) Bel goes down into the Mount and disappears from life; (9) weeping women seek Bel at the Tomb; (10) Bel is brought back to life.

See http://www.bobkwebsite.com/belmythvjesusmyth.html for a display of the parallels.

Keep in mind that the source of this parallel is a tablet from 2000 B.C. now on display in the British Museum, and, assuming this information is correct, only because I have not been to the British Museum and am not qualified to decipher the tablet, and I am not qualified to carbon date anything, this artifact is now on display for all the world to see and to judge.

[This message has been edited by Bob K (edited June 01, 2001).]

That is quite interesting. I would like to find the entire translation.

thanks, offa

Ahahahah!

Nice try BobK.

Show us a pic of the Tablet please, or give us a book where we can see it - not a table you copied from some typical crappy "freethinker" magazine.

Don't you parallelomaniacs realize that NO ONE but the most ignorant of people accept your claims unless you can actually document them? And that doesn't amount to "Go to this museum in Zimbabwe and you'll see this ancient tablet thing. On it you'll see proof that Jesus is copied from paganism."

SecWebLurker

-gone surfin' till monday...Try and find some evidence for borrowing before I get back...

SWL, you are being unfair.

It seems that you are rejecting what on its face appears to be nothing more than an unsupported appeal to authority. I have learned from SingleDad, however, that skeptics do not appeal to authority. Rather, a skeptic who appears to be appealing to authority is in fact "merely attempting to compress his argument by referring to evaluations considered obvious or well-supported in the literature."

(Laymen & SWL)TURN-ABOUT IS FAIR PLAY ...... and It makes me feel better ..... Unfortunately Bob-K made no claims .... nor offered any opinions.... Whereas quoting scripture is evidence of what ..... ...
The existence of such a tablet in and of itself while interesting does not provide any link to the gospels or any other writtings ....



[This message has been edited by I_AM (edited June 01, 2001).]

When I make assertions I do the best I can to document the sources I use for support.

The reference in CHRISTIANITY BEFORE CHRIST re: the Bel (Baal) Myth states clearly that there exists a tablet which has upon it the writings which are referenced, and the exact location of this tablet is given: The British Museum.

It seems to me that this reference is extremely credible since it refers to an artifact that actually exists in contrast to Q documents and other artifacts that are far more mysterious, including the gospels and other biblical stuff about which there is considerable dispute. This tablet can therefore be physically handled, examined, and its reported history of discovery can be checked.

Moreover, this tablet is dated. For those who complain about nondating, this artifact should satisfy your requirement for a source of myths to be dated, especially prior to JC mythology/gospels. The current information is that the tablet dates from 2000 B.C., certainly enough time for it to be a credible source of information about pagan mythology possibly plagiarized by Xn writers.

If I were able to produce the photograph requested, I could not expect the text to be written i English, and I therefore could not expect to read and translate the actual writings and would therefore have to rely upon someone else's expertise/authority/integrity for an accurate translation. That supposedly has been done, by Arthur Findlay, as he reported on pp. 227-230 in his book, THE PSYCHIC STREAM, Psychic Press, London, 1947, as cited by Jackson in CHRISTIANITY BEFORE CHRIST, pp. 43-45.

Moreover, Jackson, p. 46., has stated that the tablet containing the Bel myth was discovered in actual Babylonian ruins by a Professor H. Zimmern, and that the Curator of Babylonian Section of the British Museum gave Findlay a copy of the translation of the text.

Absent a photograph and the ability to do an accurate reading/translation or the time/money needed to go to London to do research at the British Museum, I am, like most of us, reliant upon the expertise/authority of others.

Still, because there is a reference to a tablet that supposedly actually exists, assuming there is no fraud involved (why would the British Museum risk a fraud?), I sense this source is credible.

As things stand, I currently believe that the Bel Myth predated Xnity and could easily have been used as a source for the JC myth.

Of far greater importance is the presence of the gods today.

Where are they?

Theists!!! Show us your gods!!!

[This message has been edited by Bob K (edited June 01, 2001).]

I find this very interesting as I read an article in the SecWeb library:

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode.../carrier2.html

in which it states that the Ten Commandments of Moses were actually borrowed from King Hammurabi of (guess where) Babylon, whose laws were chiseled in stone centuries before and, evidently, said stone is real and now on display at the Louvre.

As it happens, the creation and flood myths appear to be borrowed from yet another Babylonian source, The Epic of Gilgamesh.

Do we see a pattern here?

Actually, there appears to be two separate accounts of the Gilgamesh flood myth, alternately woven throughout Genesis 6:5 to 8:22, the so-called "Priestly" and "Jehovist" versions.

As for the Genesis chapter one creation myth (as opposed to the one beginning in Genesis 2:4), this excerpt is from the Doubleday Anchor Bible:

[This message has been edited by hezekiahjones (edited June 01, 2001).]

Here is a link to Enuma Elish:

http://www.piney.com/Enuma4.html

And an excerpt:

Enuma Elish, the Babylonian Creation Epic Tablet IV

They founded a princely shrine for him.

And he took up residence as ruler before his fathers,
(who proclaimed)
You are honoured among the great gods.
Your destiny is unequalled, your word (has the power of) Anu!
O Marduk, you are honoured among the great gods.

Your destiny is unequalled, your word (has the power of) Anu!
From this day onwards your command shall not be altered.
Yours is the power to exalt and abase.
May your utterance be law, your word never be falsified.
None of the gods shall transgress your limits.
May endowment, required for the gods' shrines
Wherever they have temples, be established for your place.
O Marduk, you are our champion!

We hereby give you sovereignty over the whole universe.
Sit in the assembly and your word shall be pre-eminent!
May your weapons never miss (the mark), may they smash your enemies!
O lord, spare the life of him who trusts in you,
But drain the life of the god who has espoused evil!'

They set up in their midst one constellation,
And then they addressed Marduk their son,
May your decree, O lord, impress the gods!
Command to destroy and to recreate, and let it be so!
Speak and let the constellation vanish!
Speak to it again and let the constellation reappear.'

He spoke, and at his word the constellation vanished.
He spoke to it again and the constellation was recreated.
When the gods his fathers saw how effective his utterance was,
They rejoiced, they proclaimed: Marduk is King!'
They invested him with sceptre, throne, and staff-of-office.
They gave him an unfaceable weapon to crush the foe.
Go, and cut off the life of Tiamat!

Sorry, Bob!

http://uiarchive.uiuc.edu/mirrors/ft...00/7rbaa10.txt

Is an old text through Project Gutenburg, on Babylonian religion. The text, published in 1906, references Zimmern, a well-known 19th century archaeologist, scholar and linguist.
The text also makes no reference to this sensational story, which the whole world would know about if it were true.

Zimmern, BTW, was a force in a movement in Germany to romanticize and popularize Babylonian religion contra Bible religion. Nothing would surprise me less than if this story turned out to be total BS. It would seem incredible that Joseph Campbell, whose Masks of God: Occidental Mythology I just looked over, has totally neglected this. Campbell is probably the premier mythographer of our time, and he doesn't appear to mention this in any of the five books I have of his.

Of course, it would be most interesting if true. But I am inclined to doubt.

Michael