Whilst following some of the links given on a Nazareth thread I came across a site claiming that the village of Nazareth (or Nazerat) was probably named after the earliest structure found there, namely a large stone built watchtower. The site appeared to be purely archeological in nature (i.e there was no apparent theological angle present) and the claim was that the watchtower was built around 200 BCE (the only earlier structures being tombs) probably during or just before the Maccabean revolt of 167 BCE.

The book of Enoch which seems to have been written down by the Qumran community around the same period as when the watchtower was built describes in some detail the "watchers" also called the "Sons of God". The Qumran community called themselves (one of many titles) "The sons of Zadok" and the revolt was led by the Zadokite Hassidaeans.

In Matthew 1:14 there is mention of "Zadok the father of Akim" in the genealogy of Jesus, given that Joseph was described as being quite elderly (I'll assume 40ish) and there are 7 generations listed (Zadok, Akim, Eliud, Eleazor, Matthan, Jacob, Joseph), if we assume 25 years per generation this dates Zadok to around 200 BCE which places him early enough to be the same Zadok of the Qumran community.

Joseph is said to have been from Bethlehem which is only a few miles from Qumran.

So could Jesus from the watchtower also known as a "Son of God" and by birth a "Son of Zodok" be the "Teacher of Righteousness" that the Qumran community were waiting from? Or at least could someone (i.e Paul or John the Baptist) believe he was? Or alternatively could Matthew have been from the Qumran community?

Or is this all just coincidence.

Any thoughts?

Amen-Moses

Read my posts in The Dead Sea Scrolls thread. There is a place where I specifically date the Teacher of Righteousness.

Through calculations given in the acutal texts, one arrives at a date of around 176 or so B.C. for his coming.

Even if you reject this dating, there is carbon-dating of the scrolls which puts the Teacher of Righteous at the same time. Even if you reject this, there are minor theological differences in their beliefs.

Check it out and let me know what you think...

Oh and by the way, I'm glad to know that someone objective has seen the archeological evidence for Nazareth's existence during the time of Jesus. I ain't makin' this stuff up.

Ish

[This message has been edited by Ish (edited June 02, 2001).]

I didn't say that! The village of Nazareth dates to 70AD minimum (more likely 140AD) all that was on the site at the time of JC was a single family dry-farm, a derilict watchtower and a load of old tombs. If JC really came from "watchtower farm" then either Joseph was a landed peasant farmer or Mary's family were and Joseph just lived there.

Personally I think Nazareth is a red-herring introduced by Mark to explain the title Nazarene, I think Mark was writing in Rome around 60ish AD and continued editing until 70ish, Matthew is probably responsible for the Son of God title. I think Matthew was writing in Judea during the Roman invasion and probably from an Essene perspective although he probably was not an Essene himself.

Amen-Moses

[Amen-Moses, "So could Jesus from the watchtower also
known as a "Son of God" and by birth a "Son of Zodok" be
the "Teacher of Righteousness" that the Qumran community
were waiting from?"

Offa; Can you give me a more precise location of the stone
watchtower. I am of the opinion that Qumran was also
called "Galilee" and, thus, "Nazareth" would be within
the boundaries of the Qumran community.

[Amen-Moses, "Joseph is said to have been from Bethlehem
which is only a few miles from Qumran."

Offa; That is a curious statement. I am convinced that the
few miles are precisely that, i.e., few = 2. It is
kind of like the location of the crucifixion, I mean,
dogma and religious scholars have Jesus' birthplace in
the wrong location.
[HR]
Ish, "There is a place where I specifically date the
Teacher of Righteousness."

Offa; I do not dispute your dating of the Teacher of
Righteousness. You have drawn a valid conclusion.
However, Barbara Thiering Jesus and the Riddle of the
Dead Sea Scrolls and Robert Eisenman James the
brother of Jesus have drawn different conclusions
and they do not agree with one another. Barbara Thiering
makes the claim that Jesus was the wicked priest
and an opponent of John the Baptist who she calls the
Teacher of Righteousness. I have read a little
less than 200 pages (1063 total) of Eisenman's book
and I am now struggling because I do not agree with his
conclusions. His points are quite valid and the first
100 pages or so had me locked in. I believe he is going
in the direction that James the Just was the Teacher
of Righteousness and St. Paul was the wicked
priest. I will continue to read Eisenman's book
because I may find a few more gems (he is an excellent
source).

Eisenman is very critical of the dating process used
by the Establishment in charge of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
I may reference page 83 of his book. Eisenman shares
my conviction that the Dead Sea Scrolls are not
exclusively Maccabean.

thanks, offa

Some of the earliest speculations about the Scrolls were of this question. It was resolved way back in the 50s. The teacher started the sect, the sect began when the Macabees stole the preisthood to make their deal with Rome. The Sons of light decicided that they had the true linage to the Zadite preisthood and that was the foundation of th sect. it was a couple of hundred years or so before the time of Christ. The mass of the scholarly community has rejected the view that would see Jesus as the teacher and has done so since the mid 50's.

More coincidence?

In the book of Enoch the watcher Kasdeja is accused of showing men how to take away "the bites of the serpent".

In Mark 16:18 (commonly held to be a late addition, possibly Essene influenced) "they will pick up snakes with their hands".

So basically JC couldn't have been THE teacher of righteousness but what were the Essene group (or sons of Zodok or sons of light or people of the way etc) waiting for? What was their messiah supposed to be, the reincarnation of the teacher?

Was Zadok the original teacher and JC the latest in the line? Going from the early dating for the teacher and the title sons of Zadok this certainly seems a possibility.

I'm just thinking out loud triggered by responses on other threads saying that JtheB, JC, Paul etc were definitely not Essene so I suppose I'm just fishing for clues.

Amen-Moses

(btw, search on watchtower and Nazareth to find a variety of links, just ignore any from JW sites. It seems that a large walled compound with several towers was the basis for the later farm that re-used the site. The village seems to have grown up outside the farm limits further down the valley, probably nearer a water source. Of course now Nazareth spreads well beyond the hilltop watchtower/farm complex.)


[This message has been edited by Amen-Moses (edited June 03, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Amen-Moses (edited June 04, 2001).]