Les Benton

Jesus said to Peter; "thou art Peter". "Upon this rock, I will build my church"
If you go to Rome and stand at the foot of the crucifix at St, Peter's Cathedral. Then dig down 6 feet. You will find Peter.
Jesus must be taken literally.

Kosh

Like when he claimed: <paraphrase>

Before this generation passes, I will return.

?????

Les Benton

Before this generation I will return... Jesus was telling the truth. He did return and led his armey against Jerusalem killing many if It's inhabitants. What some people can't seem to get through their head is that Jesus was alive approx. 40 years after he pulled the crucifixion scam. He destroyed Jerusalem and murdered the children as punishment for their refusal to worship Caesar. That is why he said "before this generation...because he wanted the parents to see their children murdered.

smugg

Shame on you, Kosh, for feeding the brainless troll.

offa

Smugg, are you and Les Benton the same person? You sound like alter egoes (no pun intended). In my opinion he sounds like that dude trying to imply that Josephus wrote the gospels. When I write I have my sources and I wonder what you have a problem with, "my little fundie friend". Do you just remain smugg?

thanks, offa

offa

Please do not delete this post. I have a quote from Clement and a remark from Thiering to post. I do not know a place in Archeology about the bones of St. Peter. I do not desire a board about Christian superstition but it seems almost impossible to avoid.

thanks, offa

smugg

No, sorry, I lack the talent for jumping to unfounded, unreasonable assumptions that either of you seem to have no end of. I have sources, but unlike Les I don't rely on desert revelations or vision quests and unlike you I am an atheist.

I've said it before but I'll say it again: I disagree with theists about the fundamental nature of the universe, but I hold a special contempt for people who take off on their own and make it up as they go along.

So if you get a chance, offa, would you tell me about Pesher again?

Les Benton

Smugg, I do little research and go off on my own because I want my mistakes to be my mistakes. When you copy others words you are copying their mistakes. Create your own. Then you have a chance of correcting them as need be.

offa

"Pesher" is a word I borrowed from Barbara Thiering. I use it as a language within a language and ideally as it is portrayed in the Dead Sea Scrolls. (remember the presidential speeches where the commentators would analyze his speech afterward and say, "Now this is what he said" as if you did not understand what he said. A presidential speech is carefully crafted and a final analysis is usually that he said "nothing" pertaining to the contemporary problems in America.
I treat Scripture as Truth and my comparison is the Truth Ken Starr was seeking during Whitewater. He was after Clinton the embezzler and got into Clinton's fly. The truth was that Starr was a well paid hit man to make Clinton guilty as opposed to proving whether or not he was guilty.
Jesus was born in 7 b.c.e. and survived the crucifixion. His daddy was Cleophas in person but the holy spirit in profession. His Virgin mother lost her virginity at the age of 13 years when Joseph (Cleophas) rodded her. She would have four more sons and two daughters. She was widowed when Joseph was killed by Pilate's soldiers during a protest over the rerouting of the Wady Kidron. Jesus and mary Magdaline had three children before she left him. Jesus died prior to AD 70 (shortly before). It is probably his bones that are claimed to be St. Peter's.
If my story (above) makes me a theist then so be it. I would like to start a tax free organization called "faith based" and teach what is written between the lines.

thanks, offa

Les Benton

Offa, I have said on several of my posts that Jesus was alive as late as 70. As you say it was probably earlier because he was assassinated on the plan of Medigo by Jerusalem court ordered bounty hunters. The court convicted Jesus of "crimes against humanity". Jesus escaped crucifixion by having a bribe paid to Judas to kiss another man. Probably Simon the Cannanite. Jesus's dead body was consumed by vultures. His bones are probably still on the plains. I had considered that it might be Jesus under St. Peter's. The Catholic chuch is definitly hiding something. And what a way to hide something. No one will ever dig up St Peter's. Knowing how the church thinks. If it were Jesus they woukd have named the cathedral something more appropriate.
Where we differ is on Jesus's parents. I believe that there were two persons alive then that had the power and credability to put the christian package together. That woud be Augustus and Cleopatra. They had one begotten son. His name was Ptolemy Caesar. His birhtright was Pharoah of Egypt and Emporer of Rome. His biblical name was Jesus. My reason for believing that it was Cleopatra is because when his mother learned that the Jews were seeking to kill her son she fled with him to the safety of Egypt.
He was about 14 then. He grew up in the palace's of Egypt where he was taught to be a master of illusions. Which Egyptians are famous for. He returned to Judea ready to rule or ruin the Jews around 65-67. The first thing that he did was warn the Jews that if they did not accept him as their god he would kill their children right before their eyes. Which he did 68-70.
I learned this from an accurate understanding of Revelation. Cleopatra may have died by the bite of a asp. But it was not suicide. There was a big bounty on her head.