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Old 05-06-2001, 06:53 PM   #11
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<<<<<<<And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
REVELATIONS 20:10>>>>>>>

So out of all the verses you listed, this is the only one that specifically states something of eternal torment. But only for the 2 Big Guys. You have to ask yourself why doesn't the Bible state the same (semi) clear statement for the rest of humanity damned to hell. This statement shows that

1. Because these 2 ultra Bad Dudes are so bad, they would endure more than just a simple death in flames.

2. Then you must ask yourself, why would God give the same punishment to the 2 worst characters in history that he would give everyone else?

3. Then why did he not include all other people that where damned along with false prophet and the Beast in that same sentence, then it would have been clear to everyone and God could have avoided us having this argument?

It only makes sense that eternal suffering is a special punishment for these two. The rest of use will die at once or soon after entering Hell.

Of course, it's all bull shit anyway.
Old 05-06-2001, 07:00 PM   #12
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Atheists, ignore Amos123 and his incoherent babble, not even the Christians will claim him. He just takes everyone off subject into lala land.
Old 05-06-2001, 07:16 PM   #13
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by critical thinking made ez:
Atheists, ignore Amos123 and his incoherent babble, not even the Christians will claim him. He just takes everyone off subject into lala land.</font>
Fear not my friend the last thing Amos wants is to be claimed by Christians. The only reason why I am incoherent to you is your existence in lala land.
Old 05-06-2001, 07:40 PM   #14
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Teutonic:
I thought the Hell actually meant "the Grave" or 'death.' As in one of the creeds where it says Jesus decended into Hell.. well, that is not in scripture but it actually meant he died, went into the grave for 3 days... </font>
Hell is opposite to heaven and if heaven exists between our first and second death hell must be as well. Both heaven and hell are for eternity which is when the temporal is transformed into the eternal and from here it is to last until death do us part. The temporal exists only in out left brain and the eternal exists only in our right brain. The eternal is eternal because it is incarnate upon us from previous generations and contains the thousand year reign. In between the eternal and the temporal is "midheaven" which is the place where "born-again" Christians like to soar while burning preselected scriptures to stay aloft (Rev.14:6-12). Others will crash into atheism while yet others will burn at the foot of the cross in the ashes that once fired their brewpot.

The period of midheaven is to last 40 days instead of 40 years and will depend on the place from whence "the beast" emerged. If from the celestial sea 42 months is the extended time of purgation and if this beast emerged from the earth "the smoke of their torment shall rise forever and ever."

The precondition here is that rebirth must have taken place or there is no beast (non rational animal man) to emerge not even after three days.

The three days spend underground is after the ego is put to death. For Jesus this was on the cross, for Jonah it was in the belly of a whale that he had created for himself and for others it just happens after the rapture of the ego. The critical point here is that three days are spend in parody before extacy can become real lest he becomes the final imposter Pilate feared so much (Mt.27:64c).


[This message has been edited by Amos123 (edited May 06, 2001).]
Old 05-12-2001, 06:20 AM   #15
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Another take on these Bible pictures-

What about the imagery of the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ in Revelation 21 and the analogy between marriage and Christ/the church in Ephesians 5?

The two together suggest a richer picture of the afterlife than simply life/death. The picture is of death as a consummation of all that has come before: the beginning of a new eternal life, yes, but an act of marriage as well. That is, our human life is leading up to our marriage to God and we can choose whether to pursue that relationship, that suitor for our hand, or reject his advances. I find interesting in this regard Ephesians 5:31-32...

31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church."

This is the same Christ with his bride in Revelation 21.

Accordingly, hell is not merely oblivion, but like a human person having had a chance to become married and rejecting the suitor, one lives without the relationship one has rejected. I think that parallelism of opposites makes more sense than a dichotomy between marriage/obliteration.

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