Cute Little Baby

Unlike all other freethinkers I've run into; Offa apparently thinks the Gospels were written very early, and Jesus apparently survived the crucifixion and, what, showed himself to the disciples? He also appears to have more confidence in Biblical 'accuracy' than most freethinkers. I'm not sure, but Offa hasn't expounded much upon his theory/ies, and since its unique and interesting, I'd like it if he used this thread to do just that.

So, Offa, give us the goods.

P.S. I haven't been looking over this specific board much, so if he already explained all of this already, please forgive this redundancy.

Thanks.
-Cute Little Baby

rodahi

I think this is a good question. As I understand it, Offa had been tremendously influenced by the works of Barbara E. Thiering, a legitimate NT scholar. (The vast majority of NT scholars do not take her conclusions seriously. Actually, I don't know of any who do.)

I am familiar with her hypothesis and what she considers to be supporting evidence and, quite frankly, I don't find her ideas plausible.

I provide the following information on Thiering for those who would like to find out more about her.

Barbara E. Thiering
Retired Lecturer, Sydney University School of Divinity, Sydney Australia

Barbara Thiering says of her work, "My series of Jesus books take the search for the historical Jesus into the wealth of new information I believe is offered by the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Gnostic literature, and the apocryphal books. The search comes back to the gospels themselves, where there is an embedded history available by objective methods to those who hold that scripture is subject to the pesher technique. It is a natural political history, in which Jesus played an essential part, the history of the fusion of Diaspora Judaism with Greco-Roman culture. It includes an account of certain events that were part of that history, and that were deliberately built up as 'miracles' for the sake of the 'babes in Christ,' including the 'virgin birth' and the 'resurrection.'"

Books

The Book That Jesus Wrote—John's Gospel, 1998
Jesus of the Apocalypse, 1995
Jesus the Man = The Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls (U.S. edition), 1992
The Qumran Origins of the Christian Church, 1983
The Gospels and Qumran, 1981
Redating the Teacher of Righteousness, 1979
Deliver Us from Eve, ed., 1977
Created Second? Aspects of Women's Liberation in Australia, 1973
Documentary Films

The Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls, Sydney, 1990
Jesus the Man (Japanese), 1993
Academic Credentials

B.A., Sydney University
B.D., London University
M.Th., Melbourne College of Divinity
Ph.D., Sydney University
Academic Appointments

Lecturer, Sydney University School of Divinity, 1967–1993
Professional Service

Member of the Equal Opportunity Tribunal of New South Wales, 1981–1993
Student Advisor, Sydney University School of Divinity, 1980–1991
Member of Sydney University Board of Studies in Divinity, 1973–1991

rodahi

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: rodahi ]

offa

Topic: Offa's theory on the origins of Christianity (and
other Biblical matters, perhaps?)
Cute Little Baby

Thanks Cute Little Baby and rodahi. I very much respect
both of your opinions. Rodahi, I do not agree with
everything that Thiering writes, however She is a great
source.

I am currently exhausted. I have spent mostly 12 hour
days out in the summer's heat building basement foundations.
Today we got rained out at 3 pm. I have not had time to
do any reading ... wait until this winter.

Thiering, Josephus, Eisenman, and Finkelstein (I misplaced
his book and I'm not sure I spelled his name correctly)
agree on their topics. Of course they do not draw the same
conclusions. Eisenman is a Jew and he refuses to accept Jesus.
Josephus tells us that the ancient Hebrews used pseudo-
names for locations. Egypt was alongside the Dead Sea and
the Jordan was also the wady that ran through Mar Saba.
Damascus is Mar Saba (cup of Blood) so when Saul went to
Damascus and discovered Jesus in 37 c.e. he was at Mar Saba.

King David had a tiny kingdom and he never ruled over Israel,
just Judah. King Solomon never communicated with the real
king Hiram of Tyre. Tyre was actually Qumran and the monarch
there was referred to as "Hiram". Eisenman mentions the same
unnecessary plurals that Thiering mentions. Thiering writes that
Jerusalem in plural is actually Qumran. Josephus tells you that
Galilee is also the Qumran area. Josephus tells you that the
Samaritans were also local to Jerusalem and gained this moniker after
one of the Assyrian kings removed the leaders from this area
to what is now known as Samaria and that Cuthah is actually
this wilderness area north of Jerusalem that was once Persian
because all of Judah and Syria were once Persian. It is what
I call "lying like a Jew" and calling it the Truth.

John Allegro (usually had his head up his ass) discovered that
there were more than one Mount Gerizum in Scripture. This Mount
Gerizum will also become Mount Sinai and it has to be the the same
mountain where heaven was originally located according to Josephus
in Ant 03-123.

The world in the bible is their own little world. Discussing
Noah's Flood in terms of out planet being submersed is folly.
Jesus was born in 7 b.c.e. a few years before Herod died. He
became a 1 year old Child in 6 c.e. when he celebrated his
bar mitzvah at twelve years old. When he was twelve he was
actually 23 and had graduated into a lower priesthood. It was
at this time that he became a bastard because he changed
religions. In changing religion he accepted the Jubilee
calendar (solar) and discarded the popular lunar calendar
with the autumn New Year. This made him illegitimate.

All I can say is, you bible experts, just keep on reading
ideally and you will never discover a thing.

Thanks, Offa

fromdownunder

Offa

Don't hurry to respond, but if you get time, I would appreciate it. How different is Pesher to the Knights Templar theories.

I have read some material on the latter, and most of your posts on these Boards, and on the surface, your thoughts and the ideas you raise are very similar.

But I understand (from memory) that you do not accept Knights Templar doctrine and beliefs. So where do you diverge?

Norm

offa

fromdownunder
Don't hurry to respond, but if you get time, I would
appreciate it. How different is Pesher to the Knights
Templar theories.


Holy Blood Holy Grail is an interesting book. Kind of
like a Sherlock Holmes mystery. Jesus Christ never set foot
upon France or Spain. Antipas may have. Antipas would qualify
as a Fisher King. Michael Baigent made a ton of money
off his story about a descendant of Jesus Christ, but, he
knows better. This holy blood was about the Jew bloodline
through Herodias and Mariamne. I do not believe that Antipas
and Herodias had any children and thus, this holy bloodline is
extinct. For it to exist Herodias has to have a daughter that
marries a Jew (while in Gaul). Her daughter by doubting Thomas
does not count because she remained in Palestine.
Thanks fromdownunder for your question because it was accurate.
It feels great not being misquoted.

My pesher is not an interpretation of dreams in the
sense of Habakkuk. It is listening closely to what is being said.
I borrowed the word Pesher. It relates to Santa Claus and the
Easter Bunny, you know, back in the old movies they would show
ocean waves when the stars were fucking.

thanks, Offa

Marduk

There is a similar book by Laurence Gardner called Bloodline of the Holy Grail, the first half is pretty good, where he goes into the meanings of first century Essene jargon, e.g. to walk on water is to baptize people.

offa

O.K., Marduck, I am going to orderBloodline of the Holy Grail:
The Hidden Lineage of Jesus Revealed by Laurence Gardner,
(Paperback - September 1997). I may find an acorn. Boy, I got
a lot of reading to do.

In reading Thiering I have discovered that she draws valid
conclusions. I ran across her by accident. She writes that
Jesus was responsible for the writing of John by
dictating what was to be written. She writes
JOH 01:01 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with God, and the Word was God. is Jesus himself.
In Acts the Word of God is referring to Jesus and

ACT 06:07 And the word of God increased; and the number of
the disciples
multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the
priests were obedient to the faith. means that Jesus had
a son. Use a search engine and look for "word" in Acts and
place Jesus in that context.

I would rather write about and discuss Josephus than
Thiering. I keep getting stuck with The Knights
Templar and I have not studied them and I have remarked
that the "Holy Grail" is not Jesus' bloodline. The bloodline
was before him and it flowed in his veins and this bloodline
should also flow in the orthodox Jew bloodline today. They
are millions who qualify. Myself, I have Puritan blood and
one of my family trees comes over on the boat after the Mayflower
and I would kind of like to be related to King Offa.

Thanks, Offa