Freethought & Rationalism Archive

TollHouse · 11-15-2001, 01:06 PM

I read somewhere that revalations didn't become cannon until the 11th century but I can't find anything on the net to confirm this.
Little help?

Toto · 11-15-2001, 01:44 PM

A little help from Google:

Revelation was included in the Canon by some early church fathers, including Origen and Athanasius. However, it remained controversial (a little bit too psychotic), was not universally accepted, and was later rejected by Luther.
http://www.ntcanon.org/Athanasius.shtml

Quote:

. . . could not remove the opposition to the Revelation of John. This book only achieved its firm place in the canon of the Greek Church in the 10th century.

Or

The Rejection of Pascal's Wager - A Skeptic's Guide to Christianity

Quote:

In fact the first list of all the 27 books of the New Testament to the exclusion of all others appeared in the Festal Letter written by Athanasius (c296-373), Bishop of Alexandria to the Egyptian Churches in AD367. In the letter Athanasius told his bishops that these twenty seven books are to be regarded as canonical. [11] Athanasius' list was confirmed by a council under Pope Damasus in AD382. However many churches in the east continue to disagree with the Athanasian canon. The Book of Revelation, for instance, was not considered divinely inspired until well into the eighth century.

Richard Carrier states

Quote:

It was not until 692 A.D. when this decision became anything official. That year the Trullan Synod was comprised of several Eastern bishops convened by Emperor Justinian to settle and organize the authorities for Christian law (just as Justinian had commanded for secular law). This decreed that, for instance, both the Synod of Laodicea and the Epistles of Athanasius were to be considered authoritative, even though they contradicted each other on whether Revelation was to be included. . . .

Their decision gave license for confusion: at least six different lists of canonical texts were still in use in the East by the tenth century (M 217). And to this day, Revelation is not included in the Greek Orthodox Bible.

. . .

Revelation, however, was not accepted into the Armenian Bible until c. 1200 A.D.

cartman · 11-15-2001, 01:47 PM

It depends on whose version of the canon is accepted as authoritative. For example, Martin Luther rejected Revelation, as well as James and Jude IIRC.

Richard Carrier has an in-depth essay on the development of the canon in the Library.

Echo · 11-15-2001, 02:57 PM

Richard Carrier's article on the NT canon is good. However, I'm puzzled by his claim that the Book of Revelation is absent from Greek Orthodox bibles. To my knowledge, the Greek Orthodox Church includes Revelation in its bible, although the book was, and is, controversial within that church.

Toto · 11-15-2001, 03:29 PM

I think Revelation is not considered canonical, but is included as worthy of respect. It is not included in the Syrian canon.

TollHouse - what's your interest in this? What difference does it make whether it is in the canon or not?

TollHouse · 11-15-2001, 03:38 PM

Thanks for the information guys.

Toto, I'm just having a discussion here. You're post was most helpful.

11-15-2001, 01:06 PM	#1
TollHouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 8,745	Seeking information on Revalations... I read somewhere that revalations didn't become cannon until the 11th century but I can't find anything on the net to confirm this. Little help?

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11-15-2001, 01:47 PM	#3
cartman Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: USA Posts: 175	It depends on whose version of the canon is accepted as authoritative. For example, Martin Luther rejected Revelation, as well as James and Jude IIRC. Richard Carrier has an in-depth essay on the development of the canon in the Library.

11-15-2001, 02:57 PM	#4
Echo Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Winter Park, Fl USA Posts: 411	Richard Carrier's article on the NT canon is good. However, I'm puzzled by his claim that the Book of Revelation is absent from Greek Orthodox bibles. To my knowledge, the Greek Orthodox Church includes Revelation in its bible, although the book was, and is, controversial within that church.

11-15-2001, 03:29 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I think Revelation is not considered canonical, but is included as worthy of respect. It is not included in the Syrian canon. TollHouse - what's your interest in this? What difference does it make whether it is in the canon or not?

11-15-2001, 03:38 PM	#6
TollHouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 8,745	Thanks for the information guys. Toto, I'm just having a discussion here. You're post was most helpful.

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